BillyHills Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Many people myself included has at sometime had a bookmakers account closed, suspended or restricted. You here of some pathetic stories from so called 'major bookies' and there was an interesting article in the Post recently. Some of the points made: Quote Contrary to some opinion, that has not just been from high-rolling gamblers but from small-staking ones as well, and not just from winners but sometimes from losers, too. Account 'closure' is self-explanatory, but it has become apparent that some 'restrictions' are so draconian that they serve much the same end, while – the cynic might suggest – leaving the door ajar to a spin or two on the virtual roulette table. There are countless anecdotes about bets being restricted to derisory sums, and bookmakers have confirmed that some customers have been 'factored' to a minute fraction of the bets they request. Quote HBF ran a survey of the betting public in 2016, to which there were nearly 1,000 respondents, with 59 per cent of those who stated that they had had accounts closed or restricted claiming to have suffered a reduction in interest in the wider sport as a consequence. Quote Those accounts have been for average bets of just £15 and have effectively done no more than break even over a number of years. The individual’s apparent 'crime'? It was that, in among those bets, he backed enough horses at odds longer than SP to have aroused suspicion. Quote However we do manage what we allow a very small percentage of customers to bet. Of our horse racing customer base, totalling well over 1m people in the last 12 months - around 97 per cent of these customers have no restrictions relating to their account. Around 2 per cent are restricted to the extent that they can bet to win £1,000 for major races. And even the remaining 1 per cent can bet to win £100 in major races Quote Another, related, option is to offer punters 'no frills' accounts, without promotions and/or best-odds guaranteed, but with this commitment to a minimum bet. This should be an option, rather than an obligation - different punters will want different things. Quote And the fact the majority of betting markets now operate to such low margins and the whole industry is so competitive with special offers and concessions means more people than ever find themselves able to make a profit from their betting provided they shop around for best prices, show discipline and avoid the temptations of casino games and slots. Quote So how does this whole situation play out? Well there are two scenarios that are clearly unfeasible. Firstly, no bookmaker can be expected to lay every bet that every punter wishes to place. And secondly, it cannot be right that no punter is allowed to show a profit unless he or she happens to get lucky with a one-off multiple wager for example. Quote So if bookmaker A was offering heads at 11-10 and bookmaker B was offering tails at 11-10 punters could back both for all the money they could get their hands on and would guarantee a profit. These opportunities do present themselves on a regular basis. Put simply, if bookmakers had to lay all bets the margins would have to increase significantly, special offers and concessions like best odds guarantee would be under threat, and every punter would face a world in which there was less value than before. Quote So for example if Lucky Boy is a 10-1 chance for the 2.30 at Haydock each bookmaker would be obliged to lay an individual customer a bet of £50 at those odds. If that rule applied across the industry a punter with accounts with a ten bookmakers could place a total of £500 on Lucky Boy if they were all offering 10-1. It sounds fine in theory but one has to be aware that plenty of shrewd punters with a strong desire to get big bets on at best prices already have a number of accounts with the same bookmaker, often opened in the name of friends, relatives and neighbours. https://www.racingpost.com/news/news/are-bookmakers-unfairly-closing-customer-accounts-views-from-tuesdays-debate/316874 gbettle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 There's lots of talk that the UKGC may make all bookmakers take a minimum of a £50 bet. That would make bookmakers become bookmakers again, instead of traders. Valiant Thor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate53 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 That really would be groundbreaking! I'd be very happy with £25! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles180 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Had an account closed recently becasue they offered me a £10 Casino bonus with rollover of 88 times before withdrawal. So I played it rolled over 88 times in about 10 days and came out with about £230 in profit went to withdraw 50% which they did I was then told that the account was going to be closed for not depositing money in to the account over a specified period, so bye bye that one Edited January 25, 2018 by Bubbles180 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I've never had an account closed Perhaps that says more about me than it does about the bookies ....... Bubbles180 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastair Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Accounts have been closed down since the year dot - William Hill closed down the accounts of punters who were using Phil Bull's Time Test service in the 1940s. The difference now is that some bookmakers really would rather not be taking bets on horse racing(which overwhelmingly is the source of these complaints) unless the punter is clearly a complete mug and the restrictions are applying in respect of relatively small bets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Thor Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) Hi BH Only just noticed this thread As stated in another thread I am restricted now to only 2 books that will take a reasonable bet and both of those I only use for for convenience to put on footy bets as I cant get on the singles that I want for the gg's and I only rarely do other bets. For my actual bets I only play @ the front end of the market Evs to 5/1 max at level stakes. My annual accounts (bet records) run from April to April) and going through those Ive only had 1 horse drift out quite a lot in the betting and actually win ~ 16/11/17 Ludlow Sunshade backed at 7/2 drifted to 6/1 So my crime seems to be (for what I can figure out) is that on average 85% of my bets come in in price just before the off, so I presume the books must think I can price up better than themselves or Im getting very good inside info (I wish). I dont really have a problem with being restricted as due to the love of FOTB's by certain members of the general public ,bookie shops have popped up quicker than weeds in my garden so most of the time I can get on what I want with BOG as well by just popping in a couple of shops. What I do have a problem with is the way its swept under the carpet when normal punters have a grievance but books are allowed to air their grievances on air via their tv pundit puppets when trainers shaft them with a gambling coup. These same tv pundits shut shop when Joe public has a complaint, books want their cake and eat it. I go on the Justice for Punters forum as well and and some have been banned when they've ask to withdraw funds and accounts blocked so they cant get at it at all, they seem a law unto themselves Edited January 28, 2018 by Valiant Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 ive never had an account closed. but plenty restrict to double figures. as like most punters ive taken them all up for the promos. but i have 2 that i can get as much as i want if price was 6/4 or less but couldnt get 50 on a 8/1. but i joined a german firm in october. and they haveen excellent. how long that lasts. i dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birchy Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I had 4 accounts restricted by big name bookies about 10 years ago and haven't used anything but betfair since then. Long story, but I was basically dutching and laying off on betfair. Was using biggish stakes upto £500 as it was a low ROI strategy. They limited my accounts to £10 bets, so it wasn't worth continuing with for penny profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCLARKE Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I was restricted a long while back by Paddy Power, Betfair and Betway despite showing a loss with them. Also restricted by Racebets although I had made a £400 profit with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nenad986 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Best solution for ppl who doing PL tips is to start doing only 4/1 odds ( low number of bet by day and higher profit) and split bet on daily basis on few account. If you UK just open in 5-6 bookmakers and open few more on other indedntit, so you cen very easy split 10-25 bet by day. All is randome so some acc will be in + some in - when you look in profit by singl ac, but you will go in nice +. Ofc, becous it is random some acc will win one month and maybe lose another 2, so bookmaker dont have reason to limit you. You win at all, but for evey personal account you are just one middle player ( more loser). And ofc if somone acc. found more winner on it and sxplode maybe thay imit that one but it is easy to replace. If have sistem of 10 acc in 5 bookmaker ( bet365, william hill, ppower, lads, coral, betfred - no need more to cover evreything) you will win this game. And ofc if you live in UK you can make some books in shops, i think PP gives best odd garaunted all day, lads adn few in some happy hour time, but you can mix it, especialy with realy high singl bet game!!! Hava nice day and continu to making profit on horse. Just long life for ppl who leading this site!!! Anything else is easy like... Sir Puntalot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caan Berry Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Unfortunately this seems to be getting worse and worse, generally speaking. Every sports book account I've ever had is closed or restricted (even Betfair sportsbook). The worse had to be sporting-bet with 2 x bets before closing me. There's a few YouTube clips about it in places. The HBF is a great initiative, although unfortunately everyone involved is linked with bookies in one way or another. They don't get paid and are volunteers which seems very nice, but you have to wonder why they're doing it? Last time I looked, the guy who's heading it up worked for timeform/Betfair and other board members included strong bookie links. The best thing to do in my opinion is lower your sample of bets, providing you're betting at defined value only. Then, depending on how large your price advantage is - bet larger. Sure, you'll still get limited/restricted over time but at least you'll get maximum value for the proposition. You won't beat or confuse the algorythims with the odd red-herring bet or different bet type so don't bother trying... Failing that, always use an exchange. Unless you're betting at incorrect bookie pricing they're the best offering anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evertorial Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 28/01/2018 at 10:55 PM, nenad986 said: Best solution for ppl who doing PL tips is to start doing only 4/1 odds ( low number of bet by day and higher profit) and split bet on daily basis on few account. If you UK just open in 5-6 bookmakers and open few more on other indedntit, so you cen very easy split 10-25 bet by day. All is randome so some acc will be in + some in - when you look in profit by singl ac, but you will go in nice +. Ofc, becous it is random some acc will win one month and maybe lose another 2, so bookmaker dont have reason to limit you. You win at all, but for evey personal account you are just one middle player ( more loser). And ofc if somone acc. found more winner on it and sxplode maybe thay imit that one but it is easy to replace. If have sistem of 10 acc in 5 bookmaker ( bet365, william hill, ppower, lads, coral, betfred - no need more to cover evreything) you will win this game. And ofc if you live in UK you can make some books in shops, i think PP gives best odd garaunted all day, lads adn few in some happy hour time, but you can mix it, especialy with realy high singl bet game!!! Hava nice day and continu to making profit on horse. Just long life for ppl who leading this site!!! Anything else is easy like... Hi nenad. So you bet 4/1 and anything over? Also how much do you stake with each bookie per bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caan Berry Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, evertorial said: bookmaker dont have reason to limit you It's done on value. They measure how far the odds you took were from SP, regular variations stick out very quickly. That's the only reason: I'm led to believe it's how they calculate their factoring system (amount your bet is allowed as payout). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evertorial Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Caan Berry said: It's done on value. They measure how far the odds you took were from SP, regular variations stick out very quickly. That's the only reason: I'm led to believe it's how they calculate their factoring system (amount your bet is allowed as payout). Yes that's true. But if you were to split each bet to maybe £1.50 per bookie per tip for total of £5 stake per horse then maybe they will let that go. Surely a £1.50 bet isnt going to get limited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evertorial Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 After reading this racing post article i have to say i can see the argument in all sides here. If we look at what the skybet representative says, he is advising that they are a business and at the end of the day that is true. They don't have any responsibility to take bets from anyone and can choose who they work with. The fact is that many punters who make money are doing so from bookmakers by exploiting a weakness in the prices provided by a bookmaker or in some tipsters by exploiting special offers like BOG. From over a years experience I could easily make money from bookmakers because there are enough tipsters around who advise early prices or weak lines where you can gain an edge. So effectively you will make a profit. Obviously that stops when they limit you currently. However, Why would a bookie allow someone to do that if they readily know they will lose money to them. The fact is there are exchanges available and loads of them who offer competitive odds if you are trying to make money using an edge. I used to have the opinion that it was disgraceful bookies could accept losers but not winners. But really they are a business. Those who lose do so off their own accord and there is enough information out there to stop people gambling. There are a few things im against that some bookies do, such as increase limits for serial losers which is very bad on their part. Lastly I see a number of people excited In here about the prospect of a minimum accepted bet. But that will come at a cost that's for sure. You really expect bookies will allow early pre day bets with bog for minimum of £50 stakes. No chance. The bets where edges can be made like this will likely be scrapped altogether. Margins will change to the detriment of the punter and really I see no benefits from this happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caan Berry Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 17 hours ago, evertorial said: But if you were to split each bet to maybe £1.50 per bookie per tip for total of £5 stake per horse then maybe they will let that go. Yup, agreed. I'm sure the £1.50 would go down on some internal datasheet linked with your account but you're right yes - it'd take ages to get factored like that using multiple accounts. Downside being you wouldn't make much dosh either... fine if you're just after a bit of fun as I know some view it like this Totally agree on some of your other points too - but this is the whole reason I think technology will superceed bookmakers eventually. Of course they are a business etc. debatable that they should pick and choose which customers they serve, imagine walking into an off-license and they threw you out if you weren't an alcoholic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddybear3011 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Ok, regarding to the topic : bookies restricting/ closing accounts. Of course they will once they see you are in profit most of the time, or if they notice any abnormal betting behaviour. Why would go in a business and accept losing money? of course no one. That's why they come up with different, insignificant, but valid reasons of why your account was restricted/ closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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