Advice on play pleeeease

[mrmuzeman]

Ok just lost 2 whole stacks on the cash game tables in half an hour and wanted advice on my play. 0.25/0.50 no limit I held 33 and limped in with a few others Flop came 9d 9c 3d Bingo bango bongo a full house :nana Pot was $4, I bet $2. Got 2 callers. I thought flush draw hopefully. Turn 4s No danger there then. Pot was $10, I bet $4 hopefully inviting the flush draw in. They both called. River was a Jc Okay slight alarm bells with the Jack. I thought please not someone with a J9. Pot was $22, I bet $10. First guy goes all in for $24 raise, the second player calls! :unsure I called the extra $24 cos the pot was huge but feeling pretty wrong about it. Lo and behold a J9. Now I know this guy did absolutely nothing wrong here but was I unlucky or were my bets too weak? I just really wanted to draw them in cos I thought my hand was so strong.

[dave]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease Difficult one there, but you probably should have folded (easy to say now I know). You said yourself that you were worried by J9. The fact that your worry was followed up with a big bet from one player and a call from the other has to suggest to you that your initial instinct is correct. As someone quoted Jezza during the freeroll tonight "Don't let curiosity kill the stack." Not easy to lay down a flopped full house, but if you believe you are beaten (and it seems that you did) then the fold is the correct, and a very good play.

[dave]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease

were my bets too weak?

Some might say yes, but I'd disagree. Whatever you bet, unless your opponent is a very good player, he is not going to fold trips.

[mrmuzeman]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease Okay I reloaded straight after but I wasnt on tilt actually felt suprisingly ok :lol To be honest Im almost certain I played this hand poorly but you can all tell me that in a minute :lol Ok under the gun I pick up none other than AA :nana I raise to $2 not wanting every1 to fold, hopefully 1 caller or 2. Got 2 infact. Flop came Qd 5d 4c I bet the pot of $6.75 so anyone with a flush draw would at least have to pay to get sucked out. The first guy raises another $6.75 :unsure , the other guy folds. Hmm Im feeling pretty miffed off but think hmm could just have the flush draw and he hopes I check to him after turn maybe for a free card. Also could very well have AQ with any luck. I feared QQ but do i fold my aces to a fear of QQ? :o Now what I did next was certainly a rush of blood to the head at wanting to take the pot down here and now but I went ALL IN for some $40 thinking it would scare him away unless he had trips which was the only thing I saw beating me. He called showing me Q5 for 2 pair. Now im not greatly happy about the call with the Q5o by him preflop but I played this badly im pretty certain of this. Could I have folded my AA to a minimum raise? Should i have called but I dont know what that would achieve really :\ I think this must be a classic case of sticking by your big pocket pair through thick or thin which is bad play but id like to know what I could/should have done. Please pick apart my play with knifelike precision leaving me sprawled on the floor, cold, naked and without any draws or outs

[dave]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease And, of course, holding the nuts on the flop you don't really want them to fold.

[mrmuzeman]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease Cheers Dave I felt ok about the full house, I would have won it so often afterall. I now await you to slaughter me for the aces tho :lol

[dave]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease I'd have flat called his raise, and seen what came on the turn. He clearly has something, because he's called your initial raise, and then raised your pot sized bet. If you get lucky you might get and A or 4 on the turn and then you're going to take down a big pot. If not, and he's still putting a lot of chips in then you know you're beaten so you then have to fold.

[Jezza]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease Hi MrM Hand 1 ------- What a flop! Most players would be inclined to check a flopped full house, however I feel you have to weigh up your chances of being called if you bet before you slowplay anything (and if you feel you are going to get called you should bet not check). For this you have to look at the cards on the board and make a guess as to how likely it is they connect with someone elses hand. For example if I held 33 to board AA3 it is very likely someone has an A and will give me good action but on a board 663 it is unlikely someone has a 6. Flush draws also increase your chance of being called here. There is a moderate chance someone has a 9 I would say on your flop, and a decent chance of there being a flush draw - also betting small might entice other pocket pairs (or hopefully a slowplayed overpair!) to raise you and even the fud with the overcard draw to call you. I like your bet on the flop for these reasons, although a check would have been fine as well the bet was probably the best play - a good sized one as well (you want the flush draws in!) When you get called twice you have to size up what they have. I would think one at least (maybe both) definately has the flush draw. The other one could be slowplaying to you but he is almost certainly slowplaying the worst hand (:rollin but true). It would be moronic if he had 93 for the bigger FH (unless he was the big blind) and pocket 9s would be a horrible cold deck so you have to put him on the 9 and hope he doesnt pair his kicker. Good turn with the 4s...only pocket 4s or 94 improved to beat you (highly unlikely) I like the small bet to price the flush draws in - you get called twice and hope the flush makes it on the river. River.. Not the greatest river, the flush did not make it and J9 (as you correctly thought) was a defiante possibility. However you cannot worry here, there are far too many other possible 9s in the deck that would pay you off (109s 89s A9...etc etc) to stop you from going in heavy here - you are right in that plenty of times you see J9 being played and it is a scare card but more often than not in this spot it wont have helped him - the only bummer is the flush never got there. Against two opponents here I would have just bet massive - a real overbet, you know someone has slowplayed a 9 and you have the house so sod them they are going to have to pay you off every time so make it hurt - if they have paired their kicker (unlikely but possible) it has been a beat to a cold deck. I wouldn't have worried too much about the other guy calling, we were probably wrong to put him on the flushdraw and can only assume he slowplayed the other 9 - I guess you were up against two kicker draws the whole way. The only way I would have played this hand diff is by betting heavier on the river MrM but then again I am used to tables where someone with a 9 wont raise at the end here they will just flat call (the correct play usually) - so I always get paid.But at the end of the day you ended up all in anyway - I wouldnt have been too worried about being beaten although I would have been mightily pissed off when the cards were turned over! Hand 2 ------ This is again a good flop for your aces! The Q will easily give you action from multiple hands (AQ KQ blah blah) plus there are two draws on the board again inviting people to draw at you with bad odds. Your bet on the flop is spot on. You are then min raised - this is a bit of an annoyance as you are out of position on a draw heavy board. If you were to act after him then I would just call and see the turn card and what he did on the turn before acting (on a non flush/straight turn if he checks I bet the pot or if he bets tiny I raise the pot if he comes out firing I would reasses but probably call - on a danger card like the 8 of diamonds I would probably shut down). However we are first to go and stuck with what to do. You are totally correct to think this might be a draw trying to get a cheap turn - its a common play. Min raises are generally either draws or very strong hands - it has to be said most people wait until the turn before raising their strong hands tho which increases the likelyhood of it being a draw. Re-assesing what he could have in this spot...you cant give him credit for QQQ as he would probably reraise before the flop. A pair of Qs or a draw are definate possibilitys, the danger hands are pocket 4s pocket 5s or 45s for bottom two IMO. He definately might have min raised with any of these, if this was not such a draw heavy board I would just have flat called and seen what happened on the turn but with the Q and the draws moving in was the right play I feel. You will get called by a lot of draws and Qs here and have your money in a good spot. If he has two pair yes he is a favourite but you still have about 30% pot equity, not that bad - the real killer would be if he had a set but I feel in this spot you must go through with your aces aggressively here, especially as you are out of position for subsequent betting rounds. So he showed Q5o for two pair (uhhh)....I would not be too worried about this, frustrating after losing the last hand tho I agree. Make a note on him that he plays any pish to a raise (so you know if the board comes A44 and you have AK he could well have the 4!) and a min raise is a sign of real strength. You will make money time and time again off him when the flop is Qxx and you have AQ to his Q5 ;) Jez

[mrmuzeman]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease A packed post as usual Jez and its much appreciated ;) Its interesting to know that you think I played both of these hands pretty well. I was almost certain I messed up on the AA. I shouldnt beat myself up afterall :lol Cheers :ok

[guesswest]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease I'll second the consensus on that, I don't think you misplayed either. With the bullets the only hand you could put a non-retard on with your pre-flop raise called is trips with a pp, and the statistical chance of that is way too low to abandon your overpair, at least when already somewhat pot comitted. If your opponent HAD flopped trips its likely they'd be trapping you anyway without an obvious draw on the table so their raise wouldn't be consistent with that hand. You couldn't possibly put him on two pair there, he's an idiot for being in the hand. It'd look to me like it did to you, AQ, KQ or trying to cash in on an unmade draw. The all-in vs the call there isn't a gimme, theres an argument for calling as well, but chances are great that you're ahead and the call makes it entirely likely you'll get bluffed out of the pot, i'd say it's mostly personal style and how you read the particular opponent - but the all in isn't a bad play. With the 33 that's just plain bad luck. IMO you did exactly the right thing with a boat flopped and a flush draw on the table building the pot. Sure you run the risk of someone making a higher full house, but you want to keep the draws in play, - you take your chances in poker, you'd win that hand a lot more than you'd lose it. You might have had anxiety with the J river but thats prob just standard 'I'm in a big pot i hope that river didn't give them a monster' anxiety, the 9 could be matched with any number of cards in play in that situation, and the end raises are totally consistent with trips only - at least at those kind of stakes.

[staffy]

Re: Advice on play pleeeease Sorry not been around for w while and got a lot of posts to read so will be quick with this reply. Your second hand I would have played differently only because I have been stung with AA lots of times before. My initial raise would have been higher. Probably about $5.00. This gets rid of all the bad hands hoping to hit. If you get no callers. Dont worry about it you still win the blinds. I would rather win £100 slowely than lose $50 quickly.