Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana?

[GaF]

I seem to be obsessing about Game Theory at the moment - wasn't a deliberate choice, I just kind of stumbled into it, and now seem to be coming across it everywhere I look!! Not got far yet, but the impression I get is that what I manage to learn from it could be exceedingly significant to my game. First of all, I came across this: http://oyc.yale.edu/economics/econ-159 I started watching the first lecture and was really interested by it. I've watched about 1.5 lectures in total so far, but suspect I wont get back to it (because of the other option listed below). Does that lecturer REALLY remind anyone else of Johnny Lee Miller as Sherlock in Elementary? Then I received the new book by Will Tipton (Expert Heads Up No Limit Hold'em) which seems excellent so far (I'm half way through chapter 2) and has a huge emphasis on Game Theory. http://www.dandbpoker.com/product/expert-heads-up-no-limit-holdem-volume-1 Finally I've signed up for this (its free!) https://www.coursera.org/course/gametheory which starts January 7th (30-42 hour course over 6 weeks). Anyone else already been down this route of expanding their poker knowledge? Does understanding Game Theory pay the dividends I suspect/hope it will and make it worth the time investment?

[staffy]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana? In some ways I wish I had the time and dedication to look at things like this. I am sure it would help your poker as long as your willing to learn.

[glceud]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana? How are you doing these days GaF?, at the tables I mean. You still just playing heads up? Had a look at one of your links and saw a pretty simple question asked but not really answered. I'll post it here to get some discussion going.

Hi guys, I got a question about the frequencies/ranges found via the indifference principle (page 125). When we calculate the BBfoldtoshove frequency, we do that by indifference EVsb(fold Qs9h)=EVsb(shoveQs9h) - same as we did in the 3b/5b game on page 114 - EVbbshoveA6o=EVbbfoldto4bA6o. As I understand we are incorporating the equity of the hand because we are getting to showdown when he calls and the EVs need to be the same for indifference and via that freqency we can find the range from the previous decision point. The problem is, you select Qs9h (A6o) as the bottomshove/topfold cutoff, but we could just as well select KQs instead (or K7s instead of A6o) since it falls into the same category of bottom-shove/top-fold. But if we do that, the equities vs BBcallshove range are different – Qs9h=0.319 and KsQs=0.239 or lets say As3s=0.198. These equities then affect the subsequent calculations: Your example Qs9h: BBfoldtoshove 28% (BBcallshove=72%), X=BBcb range X * 0.72=19.23% X=26.7% My example KsQs: EVsb(fold KsQs) = EVsb(shove KsQs) 25=40X + (60*0.239)*(1-X) 10.66=25.66X X=41.5% BBfoldtoshove 41.5% (BBcallshove=58.5%), Y=BBcb range Y * 0.585 =19.23% Y=32.9% So by choosing KQs instead of Qs9h we get a much different BBcb range. So when doing these and similar calcs based on the indifference principle on my own, how do I know to select the “right” cutoff hand Qs9h (A6o) instead of KQs (both within the bottom-shove top-fold category of hands) ?

[GaF]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana?

How are you doing these days GaF?' date=' at the tables I mean. You still just playing heads up?[/quote'] Yes, I'm still playing almost exclusively Heads Up. It's going quite well from the perspective that my win rate for the year, over a decent sample size, is over 10BB/100. Having said that, December is looking like being my first proper* losing month of the year. :( That's coming on the back of a few harder months. Over 6 months into the year, my win rate was well over 15 BB/100, so I'm getting worse! * Just for clarity/transparency, I only measure my win rate in terms of all in EV. In June, I had a slightly losing all in EV$ (but marginally positive all in EV BB/100) but a cash loss on the month of 13 BB/100. I view the month as "Break Even". Overall for the year, I've been "unlucky" with my all in EV to the tune of about 1.4 BB/100 - so when I state my all in ev profit, it is overstating compared to my real cash profit. I use my all in EV figure irrespective of whether I am "lucky" or "unlucky" Sorry - not a clue!! I haven't got to page 125 yet and have no idea what the indifference principal is! I take it you do know? You understand Game Theory? Can I come to you when I get stuck? :)

[glceud]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana? GaF, you lost me on page 47 of Harrington on hold'em. Since then I have learned nothing. Have you moved up the levels much?

[glceud]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana? Ooops liar, I have learned that all the players that were crap at hold'em are now equally crap at omaha.

[GaF]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana?

Have you moved up the levels much?

No. I've played NL50, NL100 and NL200. At first NL200 was highly profitable for me, but then it wasn't! lol. I stick mainly to NL50 and NL100 now (I've scaled back to just NL50 at the moment, because of the bad month and wanting to avoid having to deposit, but will move up to NL100 again as soon as bankroll without depositing is comfortable again.) Rather strangely, my BB/100 is significantly higher at NL100 than NL50! (But I play a lot more NL50 - mainly for liquidity reasons)

Ooops liar' date=' I have learned that all the players that were crap at hold'em are now equally crap at omaha.[/quote'] Is this post in the wrong thread? :unsure

[glceud]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana?

Is this post in the wrong thread? :unsure

No I said I hadn't learned anything new but I have learned the fact that the fish now play omaha, so I was lying.

[GaF]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana? Ah gotcha :ok I've given PLO a short bash a couple of times this year, not HU, with a desire to get to the stage where I'm comfortable to give it a try HU, but I didn't get anywhere and came to the conclusion that PLO really wasn't for me!!

[glceud]

Re: Is Game Theory the HU Cash nirvana? Went for a wee look at some game theory stuff on line and it appears to be a mathematical formula that allows you to gamble, indeed tells you much to gamble how often to gamble and why you need to gamble and more importantly to do all this randomly! The maths involved in the frequency and degree of the gamble can be based more accurately than the usually folds to a three bet kind of stuff by disguising how you actually play by randomising your actions. You are of course assuming that you know your opponents game well enough and more importantly that they are not randomising better than you. Sure I told you once the only thing really missing from your game was "gamble" glad some mathematicians using the Nash equilibrium concept have backed me up;) Only problem is its a very fine line between brilliance and madness and probably explains why even the best in the world look stupid some times. Any way, good luck and I'm sure you can work it out and hopefully then you will stop using the "v" word.