Bookie basher thread.

[erhaab1965]

I want to start a thread where we as punters can share information and tips ( in the advice sense not the horse sense) in our battle against the bookies. For most serious punter singles are probably main types of bets , however there are many recreational punters or new punters who don't want to stake a huge amount on singles so here's one to kick things off. Lets say you only have £10 and want to make an afternoon of it in the betting shop. Rather than bet singles and risk getting wiped out very quickly try a number of selections and just do doubles only. When I was a kid with limited money I would pick 8 , 9 or 10 fancies and do doubles only. For £10 7 selections = 21 doubles @ 47p ....£9.87 8 selections = 28 doubles @ 35p.....£9.80 9 selections = 35 doubles @ 27p.....£9.72 10selections = 45 doubles @ 22p......£9.80 If you want to bet each way just half the unit stake. This bet can last a whole afternoon or merely for the next 10 races. All you need is 2 winners and you get a return , obviously the more winners the bigger the return. If you are lucky enough and get them all up its like having a winning £10 double. If you fancy a multiple bet then using this method your money will last longer , full cover bets like Goliaths , lucky 63/31/15's heavily favour the bookies because each time you have a loser more than half your stake is wiped out. Normally the extra stake on accumulators , sixfolds are wasted so why not leave them out and incorporate them in the doubles.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. For those who want slightly bigger returns for more risk then try trebles.Same principle as the doubles but now you need 3 winners to guarentee a winner. for £10 try 8 selections = 56 trebles @17p £9.52 9 selections = 84 trebles @12p £10.08 10selections = 120 trebles@8p £9.60

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. you can combine the doubles and trebles , if i'm out shopping with the family but can't stay in the betting shop then ill do something like this , ommitting the 4folds and upwards saves considerable money.

[Aidymac]

Re: Bookie basher thread. So you reckon 8p trebles are going to bash the bookies?

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread.

So you reckon 8p trebles are going to bash the bookies?

Its all relative to what you can afford or wish to lose. You being a seasoned veteran punter may wish to do £8 trebles or even £80 trebles. Some punters may be happy bashing the bookies for £20 some not happy unless its nearer to £20k. I did say for example if you only had £10 . if you wish to take the advice just chop and change it to how it suits you.

[ExpectTheUnexpected]

Re: Bookie basher thread. I'm in the £10 category. 20p lucky 15s across 2 day cards and a night card. £1 treble on the 3 naps of the luckys. Betfred near me are a treble odds bog shop, so I get my money back most weeks, maybe losing a pound here or there. Money back at end of day or around a fiver up are my most common results. Not anywhere near "bookie bashing" but you at least get a decent run. Pretty similar thread to this on the go, along the lines of "best kind of bet" or words to that effect, lot of good thought in there. Maybe worth a read if it interests you, imagine it'll be first page.

[keithbeaky]

Re: Bookie basher thread. 10 selections? How many people can find 10 winners?

[jayalexander]

Re: Bookie basher thread.

10 selections? How many people can find 10 winners?

How many people can find 3!? Sure, you can go for favs or 2ndfavs, but you won't even break even with a 8p treble. Much better, imo, to just go for your 4 strongest selections of the day and stick them in a L15. It's a nice idea, Erhaab, but on this occasion I'm afraid I'm out!

[Trotter]

Re: Bookie basher thread. I suppose you could play this as a fun bet by picking the selections of your favourite tipster so you don't have to spend all day trying to find 10 winners The only one i take much notice of is the guy or guys who do the Diomed verdict in the Post and nearly every day they seems yoto get winners and they don't always just go for the favourite Paper trail Donny today......... Shaleek She's Rosie Pearl Secret Boss's Destination Ogaritmo Pearl Blue Solemn* * his selection is a NR, Solemn only other horse mentionned in write up I don't like odd numbers of pence so for around a tenner I'd do 21 x 50p doubles = 10.50 or 35 x 30p trebles = 10.50

[BillyHills]

Re: Bookie basher thread.

If you fancy a multiple bet then using this method your money will last longer , full cover bets like Goliaths , lucky 63/31/15's heavily favour the bookies because each time you have a loser more than half your stake is wiped out. Normally the extra stake on accumulators , sixfolds are wasted so why not leave them out and incorporate them in the doubles.

Surely anyone who picks out this many selections are actually dreaming of that very big win one day and the accumulator is the big pay day with bonus's etc...It may happen once in a lifetime and i wouldn't for a minute encourage multiple bets but you would kick yourself if you had 6/7/8 winners and hadn't done the acca. Well i would anyway?

[Trotter]

Re: Bookie basher thread. I guess if you were hoping for that life changing win you might as well forget all the doubles and trebles and just do a quid acca..................though I guess it would defeat the 'fun' aspect because most days you'd have no interest left after a couple of races

[gord]

Re: Bookie basher thread. well i hope it works cause its my pension plan 7horses up 10 quid acca nothing less than 8/1 and i dont mind if it happens anytime soon

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread.

10 selections? How many people can find 10 winners?

The gist of the doubles bet is , say you have £10 on a Saturday afternoon how would you invest it ? You can choose to put it on what you may consider to be the best best of the day by way of a £10 single. Doing this only gives you an interest in one race which may be the last race at 920 at Kempton or the first race at Lingfield either way , you have nothing invested in the remaining races , which defeats the object in having a days racing either at home or in the bookies. Myself I have done this many many times over the years invested my entire days stake onto one slip involving a number of horses in either doubles or trebles. I'm not hoping for 8 out of 8 winners or 10 out of 10 winners. If I get 3 or 4 winners then hopefully my return will be greater than if i did a win single equal stake on the selections.Obviously if I get more winners my returns will increase exponentially. For my £10 I would have had an interest in the days racing covering what I would consider as my best 8 to 10 chances , with a lower risk of losing my entire stake. Personally I'm not one to have one solitary bet on a Saturday afternoon , sometimes I may have bets in 20 to 30 races albeit tiny bets for interest , nevertheless they are still bets. My main / serious fancies could be from anywhere between 10 to 100 times more in stake.

[cpo]

Re: Bookie basher thread. You have to bet big to win big and I am guessing most of us on here don't have the funds for big bets. The only way for a big pay-out is surely an accumulator unless you can find 4 double figure priced winners in a lucky 15 or a yankee. I myself find it hard enough to get 2 winners at the moment. Most I have ever had in one bet was a lucky 15 where all selections won but all selections were under 2/1. I often do placepots at the big meetings but instead of picking a couple in a few races, I just pick one in each race and increase the stake. It's tough to get one up but when you do it pays well. I have had a few up that has returned 4 figures and the one that got away at Kempton where I missed out by a head for a return that could have been 6 figures. At the moment I just stick to decent sized single bets and the odd placepot. I am not a fan of multiples at all... the amount of times 1 selection lets you down!

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. The point about this thread is to swop ideas about bets which benefit the punters . I'm not advocating you should stake £10 nor am I saying pick 10 selections on a saturday afternoon. If its something you may be interested in fine , if you're not thats fine too , we're all individuals with different sized pockets and personalities. This particular bet is one i like to use from time to time , its the Each Way Equally Divided Double. I'm sure many of you are aware of an each way double , in fact I'm sure there are some of you on here who do them. This particular bet is the same but worked out slightly differently. The returns from the first leg is equally divided for the second part of the double ,whereas a normal EW double is calculated win to win and place to place. I like to utilize this bet if I have a solid selection ( A Big Bucks/ Quevega/ Frankel type )and another which I'm certain to place but not sure about the win ( Peddlers cross in last years champion Hurdle ) Example 1 : £10 Each Way Equally Divided Double Horse A ........ 1st 11/10 Horse B ........ 2nd 7/1 Returns .........£46.61 Normal £10 EW double returns £35.06 Example 2 : £10 EW ED Double Horse A.........1st 9/4 Horse B..........3rd 14/1 Returns..................£108.28 Normal EW returns.. £70.31 As you can see we benefit greatly if one horse wins and the other places . Obviously if they both win the normal EW bet returns more but how many times have we got the first only for the second to go down by a neck. The bet can be used for EW ED trebles and upwards also.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. Lets say in both examples the short priced banker places but the longer priced horse wins . Heres how it would change the returns for the £10 EW doubles. Eg 1 : Horse A ......2nd 11/10 Horse B ......1st 7/1 Returns ......................£51 ( £46.61 when placings are reversed ) Normal EW returns.........£35.06 Eg 2 : Horse A ......3rd 9/4 Horse B ......1st 14/1 Returns ...................£117.18 ( £108.28 when placings are reversed ) Normal EW returns......£70.31 As you can see it greatly increases the return when the bigger priced horse wins but the shorter priced one only places. The returns on the normal EW double remains the same as the previous example because the win part of the bet is immediately lost when one horse fails to win.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. £10 EW ED Treble Horse A .................1st 5/4 Horse B .................1st 7/2 Horse C .................3rd 8/1 Returns..................£170.33 ( £251.02 if shortest horse places and other 2 win ) Normal EW returns....£73.83 From the examples you can see that you can still get big returns even without getting winners in each leg. The hard part is the selection process.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. Multiple bets with more than 1 selection per race I sometimes do this bet prior to going to race meetings. If it looks like a tricky card I may group together some of the harder races in the form of a multiple at small unit stakes. Eg. Race 1 12 runner handicap , 4/1 fav Race 2 14 runner handicap , 5/1 fav Race 3 16 runner handicap 6/1 fav What I will do is pick out any number of horses that I think will have a chance and put them in a treble. The slip may look something like this. Race 1 ............ horse number 1 , 2 , 4 Race 2............. 3 ,6 ,8 ,9 Race 3 .............2 ,4 ,6 ,11 , 12 60 trebles @ 50p = £30 The total number of horses per race are multiplied together , in this example 3x4x5 = 60. Lets say you manage to pick the winner of each race at say 7/1 , you would get back £256 for your £30 investment. In situations like this I prefer to risk my £30 over 3 races covering more horses rather than have £10 on each of the 3 races. The final 2 races at Royal Ascot is a meeting where I will do this bet as they are often competive handicaps.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. The above example can be done with 2 or more races. On days where I cannot find any individual horses to bet on I may do a SP Jackpot at single meetings using the method above albeit to tiny stakes to keep me interested. To calculate the number of lines is exactly like working out a placepot. Race 1 ...........4 horses Race 2............2 horses Race 3............4 horses Race 4............3 horses Race 5............5 horses Race 6............2 horses 4x2x4x3x5x2 = 960 lines . I'd probably do it to 5p stakes thus costing me £48. Al I need is to have the winner in each race , the bigger priced winner the better. Even at 960 lines the accumulator will most likely pay much more than that. I think some bookies accept 1p stakes so you could have an interest in all the races at a meeting for under £10 with the same number of selections as above.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. Non Full Cover Multiples If you have a number of selections you wish to do in a series of doubles and trebles etc but you wish to reduce the cost a little further then here is a method. If you had 4 elections , that would equate to 6 doubles . You could have any 2 horses to be doubled with the other 2 horses , thus making only 4 doubles. It would look like this on a betting slip. Horse A Horse B .................... Horse C Horse D 4 X win doubles @ £10 = £40 It is calculated by multiplying together the number of horse in each group. You need to clearly separate each section to avoid confusion , a thick line is ideal. The number of horses in each section does not have to be equal . you can have as many/little horses in each section. The bet will come up as long as you have one winner per section. Eg 2 48 trebles @ £1 = £48 ( 3x4x4) Horse A Horse b Horse C ............................... Horse D Horse E horse F Horse G .............................. Horse H Horse I Horse J Horse K Doing full cover trebles for 11 horses is 165 bets however in this example it is reduced to 48 bets , the only snag is that you need a minimum of 1 winner per section.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. Richard Westwood has beat me to it by posting his example before me in the Confidence thread.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. Anybody doing EW ED doubles in shops , I strongly recommend you to calculate the returns prior to collecting . Yesterday I had a £30 EW ED double on a 9/2 winner and 6/1 place . The cashier paid me £140 instead of £251 . I asked them to double check then treble check but they insisted the return was correct . They printed off a receipt which showed the bet and returns. I then pointed out I wanted it equally divided and it was another 15 minutes before they paid me the correct returns. A lot of young cashiers don't understand ED bets especially now bets are settled by computer so watch out ! They tried to pay me over £100 less which to most people especially me a lot of money.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Bookie basher thread. Conversely I placed a similar EW ED Double bet today in a different shop and both were placed . I was in the car parked on double yellow lines whilst my friend went into the shop to collect he came back with more than i expected , they obviously didn't do it ED !