Full-ring flopped 2 pair

[Nade]

Main villain is 13 VPIP/9 PFR 3.8agg reg, the player in the middle is playing 8/5. Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1266132 DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter SB: $56.45 Hero (BB): $109.00 UTG: $100.00 UTG+1: $103.65 UTG+2: $56.00 MP1: $136.55 MP2: $123.35 CO: $97.05 BTN: $159.40 Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with A 4 4 folds, MP2 raises to $3, 2 folds, SB calls $2.50, Hero calls $2 Flop: ($9.00) A 4 3 (3 players) SB bets $5.00, Hero calls $5, MP2 raises to $14, SB folds, Hero calls $9 Turn: ($42.00) K (2 players) Hero checks, MP2 bets $12.00, Hero calls $12 River: ($66.00) 2 (2 players) Hero checks, MP2 bets $30.00, This is a strange situation for me as it's FR i was very conscious of not wanting to over-rep my hand so if i'd 3bet this flop over 2 tight players it seems i'd be doing that. Thoughts on the hand?

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair What was your reasoning for calling the bet on the turn? I assume you just wanted to get your showdown value hand to showdown as cheaply as possible. As such, surely you need to call the river bet too? Unless you're putting him on exactly 55 or 22, then I don't see how you can call the turn and not the river.

[Nade]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair

What was your reasoning for calling the bet on the turn? I assume you just wanted to get your showdown value hand to showdown as cheaply as possible. As such, surely you need to call the river bet too? Unless you're putting him on exactly 55 or 22, then I don't see how you can call the turn and not the river.

Much the same reason as i called the flop - check-raising would feel like i'm over-repping my hand vs a nit who's raised a huge nits cbet on the flop already on a really dry flop so his range is really strong to me. AK also gets there on the turn - a hand he could possibly play this way as a cheap way of getting to SD - raises flop for 'information' and getting control of the pot in position to control pot size. 56 gets there on the river - a hand in both of our ranges but more mine than his really. How would you have played it?

[staffy]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair OK what would I have done. I would have raised on the flop if I get reraised I am starting to worry. I am putting him on trips or AK. If I call his reraise and see the K I am now really worried and happy to lay it down I think especially against such a tight player. But the I only play micro stakes for a reason :D

[averick]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair I get what you mean by not over repping your hand on the flop so yea a call is fine to me, the board is pretty dry too so no real need to raise for protection. As played I would lean towards a fold here, AK is very likely for a 13/9 opening from MP and AA is possible too (though pretty unlikely since you would be holding the case Ace). In such cases it would also be good if you know whether villain would open a low SC like 65s from MP. I'm not too sure how often villain might want to value bet top two when the river completes the straight draw, but he could be doing so with the intention of bet folding, which is still pretty profitable at nl100 as people rarely come over the top with air on the river, especially on an AK high board. Furthermore 65 is still a pretty small part of your range. Oh, and some stats on his river AF might help too.

[gettingfatter]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair eugh, I mean a nit should have it when he takes this line but his turn bet sizing is making me not want to fold. edit/ I think its played fine, 3betting the flop vs these two is slitting your throat I reckon

[glceud]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair Pretty sure if you play A/4 in the BB you will lose money long term.

[Nade]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair

OK what would I have done. I would have raised on the flop if I get reraised I am starting to worry. I am putting him on trips or AK. If I call his reraise and see the K I am now really worried and happy to lay it down I think especially against such a tight player. But the I only play micro stakes for a reason :D

I get what you mean by not over repping your hand on the flop so yea a call is fine to me, the board is pretty dry too so no real need to raise for protection. As played I would lean towards a fold here, AK is very likely for a 13/9 opening from MP and AA is possible too (though pretty unlikely since you would be holding the case Ace). In such cases it would also be good if you know whether villain would open a low SC like 65s from MP. I'm not too sure how often villain might want to value bet top two when the river completes the straight draw, but he could be doing so with the intention of bet folding, which is still pretty profitable at nl100 as people rarely come over the top with air on the river, especially on an AK high board. Furthermore 65 is still a pretty small part of your range. Oh, and some stats on his river AF might help too.

Seems unlikely he'd open 65s in MP but you'll know better than me on that at FR. C/R river is a really nice option actually that i didn't consider as i was 13tabling at the time, but it does look like a classic spot to do it as his bets look scared and as you say people won't be expecting others to turn hands into bluffs too much on the river so will just fold to c/r assuming their opponents have it, like i would too. It actually looks perfect to c/r allin.

eugh, I mean a nit should have it when he takes this line but his turn bet sizing is making me not want to fold. edit/ I think its played fine, 3betting the flop vs these two is slitting your throat I reckon

The turn bet size is weird as he's not setting up stacks so it looks like his hand isn't uber uber strong but he still has some really strong hands in his range that we lose to and after we call 2 bets on the flop he'll never expect us to fold for that size bet on the turn so that increases my feeling he had a nice value hand although he hasn't set up stacks and his turn bet size is ridiculously un-balanced. Basically he wouldn't bet that size with a bluff apart from 65s and that actually gets there on the river - FWIW i don't think many regs are bluffing rivers.

Pretty sure if you play A/4 in the BB you will lose money long term.

That is pretty blanket statement - and you may be right - but my reason for the times when i do play it in the BB is that my range of x% needs to include hands that can make the nuts and hands that dominate my opponents hands. A4s both can make the nuts with flushes and straights it also dominates some suited connectors my opponents will be playing like 43s,54s,64s and it gives me a lot of opportunity to c/r it with back-door equity so able to apply pressure for example with A4hh on a 5h6dJc any 2,3,4,7,8 gives me a straight draw and any heart a flush draw so i can bomb the turn with basically a semi-bluff when my C/R flop bet turn range is perceived to be a lot stronger so people will make way more mistakes vs me and my hand is very disguised if i do hit the river. That's not to say it's a perfect plan every time, but the point is to have those semi-bluff potential hands in your range to get you action when you do have the nuts - so that's my reason for playing A4s OOP when i do play it. Hope it makes sense. I did fold the river - 56s is a solid part of my range and he never turns up with a pure bluff here after raising a huge nit with me in the middle plus AK which is in both our ranges hit the turn. So i just felt although it seemed really nitty i should fold as he only has value hands and every single one of them i'm losing to when the river hits the 2. Thanks for the input guys :ok

[glceud]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair

That is pretty blanket statement - and you may be right - but my reason for the times when i do play it in the BB is that my range of x% needs to include hands that can make the nuts and hands that dominate my opponents hands. A4s both can make the nuts with flushes and straights it also dominates some suited connectors my opponents will be playing like 43s,54s,64s and it gives me a lot of opportunity to c/r it with back-door equity so able to apply pressure for example with A4hh on a 5h6dJc any 2,3,4,7,8 gives me a straight draw and any heart a flush draw so i can bomb the turn with basically a semi-bluff when my C/R flop bet turn range is perceived to be a lot stronger so people will make way more mistakes vs me and my hand is very disguised if i do hit the river. That's not to say it's a perfect plan every time, but the point is to have those semi-bluff potential hands in your range to get you action when you do have the nuts - so that's my reason for playing A4s OOP when i do play it. Hope it makes sense.

Well I cant argue with any of that so for once I wont. I genuinely believe that you should be taking a shot at 5 times these stakes with fewer tables. I dont know how any of the bankroll supply type sites work, but it might be worth looking into:ok

[Nade]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair

Well I cant argue with any of that so for once I wont. I genuinely believe that you should be taking a shot at 5 times these stakes with fewer tables. I dont know how any of the bankroll supply type sites work, but it might be worth looking into:ok

Thanks for the compliment GLC, i will look into it though it's extremely unlikely someone would but no harm in looking i guess. I do crave that opportunity TBH maybe one day.

[Reg BAFC]

Re: Full-ring flopped 2 pair You really think 65 is in the range of a nit who has raised in MP? He's a nit and even though our hand is disguised to an extent, it's no better than AQ versus his value range, as he'll be checking back AQ/AJ here just about all of the time. Personally, I'm either pumping it or dumping it on the flop. You're getting value towned for sure here, as I'd say his range is exactly sets & AK with perhaps a few complete airballs but likely not enough combo's for us to be able to profitably call.