Mirage Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hey guys, A question to everyone really but will be espescially interested to hear what the experienced punters say: what makes you bet each way? If you do at all that is.... I see it mentioned at times in different threads but im just curious as to when people use the e/w option. In betting shops when i have bet race to race in the past i always took each way on selections that would at least give me my money back if only a place is achieved, ie. 1/4 odds 4/1 and above or 1/5 odds 5/1 or above. Now though, when studdying hard like i have been in the last week or so, i am starting to change my mind. Infact, my first winner on this forum was as a straight win at a price i would normally have put e/w at the same stake total. So, i am beggining to wonder whether i should ony back e/w at odds that will offer me 2/1 the place, ie. 1/4 odds 8/1 and about and 1/5 odds 10/1 and above. I know some don't back e/w at all but, in my opinion, i dont understand this when it comes to prices around the 16/1 and above mark. Has anyone tried different ways and seen it help or start to destroy their p/l? I have only had a few bets that i have studied seriously and recorded so there aren't enough results to see how it would have worked out on myself in the past :\ Thanks in advance for any replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedthewolf Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? IMO its a case of each to there own. Many various types of punters on here all with there own take on how to bet & how to get value etc. Take your time and back the way its suits YOU would be my thoughts and i firmly of the opinion value is in the eye of the beholder. I myself find backing e/w at mostly double digit prices the most benefit to me but at times will back win if odds are cramped or backing several in a race. Some guys back e/w at prices of say 7/2 and lower i can't get my head around that BUT if it works for them you can't knock it. I don't back even money or odds on shots i prefer to look at double figure prices in those sort of races and back e/w at smaller stakes but some guys on here profit by backing the former so like i said for me its each to there own there is no written law. Good Luck:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laserspewpew Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? When I back e/w I generally back e/w on selections around 7/1 or higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I go through different phases, i have myself confused, i need to find the strategy that suits me and stick to it, i just started backing e/w again today and im glad i did as my selection was 2nd @ 6/1. An old guy i used work with once told me he has never in his life backed a horse for the win only if it was an e/w price, he throughout his whole life has backed e/w, and he would be a shrewd punter, he told me he is up a lot of money but mainly thanks to the e/w bet. If he backed win only down the years he said he would be broke. So now personally i think the best strategy is find a horse that is an e/w price that you think has a major chance of placing as opposed to backing win only on a horse you feel will either hack up or come nowhere!! That is my strategy at the moment anyways, but im a complete novice. :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpo Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I back each way far less than I used to. I will back as short as 4/1 e/w on a single and have gone as low as 2/1 on multiple bets. When I do multiples I will always do them equally divided. This is just something i have always done since missing out on quite a lot of money with an each way multiple in the past with one loser. I suppose it depends on the race though. If I had an 8/1 shot that I fancied in a group race then I would back that just to win whereas if I had an 8/1 shot in a 20 runner handicap then I would probably back it each way. For me depends on the type of race and the amount of runners. Another factor for me is the size of the bet. If I was backing a horse at around 5/1 and was having a small bet then I would be more inclined to back it just to win. If I was backing the same horse but for 10 times the amount then I would probably go each way. This is just the way I bet. Probably sound a little strange to some on here. In the past a lot of my big bets have been each way is I don't really like to back favourites that are too short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I back each way, probably not as often as I should, but I've been altering that lately with some success. I used only to back each way for double figured odds, but this last while if a horse is 6s or above and I fancy it to go close, depending on the race, nowadays I'm probably going to go each way. When they win I'm still happy enough, when they're just beat, it's a small, small consolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowles10 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? i rarely back ew these days as i find it doesnt add anything to my P/L. I would rather use the stake to back another horse as this gives 2 chances of winning the 1st prize, so a slight disadvantage as EW would give you 1 chance to win and 2 chances of a place, so in a 10 runner race, you have 10% chance (1 in 10), and a further 20% chance of a place. 2 runners backed to win would only give you 20% chance of winning. However, if your horse doesnt complete, you have nothing with 1 go but with 2 goes, you have a chance i even back 50/1 chances to win, it doesnt bother me at all. Each to their own as long as it doesnt affect your profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I do back EW quite often but it's gotta be big odds......... I usually reckon 20/1 and above If you're looking at 1/5 odds races, then effectively it's 1/10 odds to your total stake if it places. So a 20/1 shot you're backing at 2/1 if it places As I'd very rarely back anything to win at 2/1 or under, I'm not going to back anything to place at 2/1 or under ! I think that picking these big price EW shots is not really down to intensive form study, it's a matter of flair or intuition or instinct, it's art rather than science.............:tongue2 I find it's usually a case of noticing one of the variables which make up 'form' and which is often overlooked by the majority of punters and allowing that one variable to outweigh all the other variables like recent form, class of race, handicap mark etc............. An example might be a horse coming back from a 6 month break who has a real 'best fresh' record but was beaten 20 lengths last time it ran 6 months ago and has a row of duck eggs from the end of the previous season That kind of thing......... I usually just go by the price........big price, it's EW, short price, it's win.......I'm sure the 'value' boys won't agree with that, but it's how I pick 'em ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Interesting views, cheers guys :ok Guess it is just 'each to their own' as people pick horses in different ways and with different views on what types of prices they like so one rule doesnt work for most, nevermind working for all. Trial and error i guess then, and see which the bank balance prefers :loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? If you're undecided about whether to back a particular horse win-only or EW, a reasonable way to decide is just to check the place odds on Betfair and see how they compare with the place odds you'd get in an EW bet. At the very least you'll often find that if you do want to back it EW then you'd be a lot better off doing the place part of the bet on Betfair. I certainly wouldn't decide purely on a "long odds EW, short odds win-only" basis. I once backed an odds-on shot each-way. :$ It came second. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? To a certain degree any value win bet will be a value each way bet too, but there are circumstances when an each way bet is better or worse value. In a 16 runner handicap you get paid a 1/4 for finishing in the first 4 (1/4) of the field (fair odds). Yet in a 32 runner handicap you still get paid 1/4 odds for finishing in the first 4 (1/8) eighth of the field. It stands to reason betting each way in races where it's the straight 5, 8 or 16 runners is more beneficial to the punter than 7 or 32 runners. It's much better to back more than one horse to win in a 32 runner handicap, than one each way, whatever the odds. It's also mathematically sound to bet each way in races where there is a short priced favourite. Odds are knowhere near the main reason why I bet each way, I would not go quite as far as Slapdash, 5/2 is about my limit. Getting 75% of the stake back. Whether the race is the type to favour each way betting (number of runners and price of favs) has the biggest effect (imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedthewolf Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? In some big handicaps you can get paid 5 places by some bookies which gives even more value to the E/W backer imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Is there a good reason why bookies offer 1/4 odds 1,2,3,4 for h'caps but 1/5 1,2,3 for non h'caps ? Examples are the big 2YO sales races like at Doncaster on St Ledger Day or the Fox Hunters Chase at the Grand National meeting , both attracting 30+ runners yet 1/5 odds 1,2,3 ! What is the logical reasoning for the differing odds and place terms ? In 20+ years of punting i've not come across a decent answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billvernon Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Sometimes Hot favourites are really short and really fancied I find that it pushes the prices of the 3rd and 2nd favourites out to a good price I then back one of these E/W as their price is inflated and seems to work for me as invariably the short priced fav can be beaten.Percentage wise the 2nd and 3rd Favourites should be a lot shorter but the bookies do go a little heavy on the favourite and push others out which if you catch right can give a nice return. Also I do multiple Goliaths/ heinz etc bets e/w at Cheltenham and also Aintree as you get 1/4 of the odds on the field and because it is such a high class field you get some really good high prices Antipost with NRNB on them - these can give you odds of over 2 or 3/1 or more for a place and in a multiple especially on the big races it can give back a nice sum on a small outlay - so long as you have done a bit of homework and chosen horses in each race you think is definetly a place/win horse. I got quite a few quid last festival using this strategy. Also i find this makes the festival more fun I always seem to get a lot of placing and the e/w multiple seems to work. Another strategy I have is to look at horses at the beginning of the season on the flat I look at top trainer sire etc and also buying price of the horse and you get some horses at 66/1 etc that considering the rest have not had a run in the field may be good enough to win due to other horses being inexperienced .Also I note that top trainers usually run the horse with a good chance and you cannot miss prices of 40/1 - 66/1 at this part of the season. And finally Aintree - The Grand National - I think anyone would have at least 4 horses they fancy in the race so yes I admit I back the 4 e/w as the prices are over 10/1 usually and it is nice to be on a placed or winning horse of the big one.I have literally had 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th by doing this and got a nice return on my outlay - Although Honesty has to point out that I have also lost all 4 bets LOL.But that is the Grand National for you.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billvernon Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? regarding erhaab1965 Comments - I am in total agreement with you - I have been 4th so many times in a 16+ runner race and yet nothing back but if it was a handicap I get a return. I would like to know the reasoning on this myself as to me 16 horses is 16 horses no matter what they are carrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoyRooney Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I think it depends..What you should so is look back over the history of your betting and see which would have given you more profit,straight win or ew....:unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteg40 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I think it depends..What you should so is look back over the history of your betting and see which would have given you more profit' date='straight win or ew....:unsure[/quote'] Good point there mate :ok as long as your not losing money, a little profit is better than losing ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Is there a good reason why bookies offer 1/4 odds 1,2,3,4 for h'caps but 1/5 1,2,3 for non h'caps ? Examples are the big 2YO sales races like at Doncaster on St Ledger Day or the Fox Hunters Chase at the Grand National meeting , both attracting 30+ runners yet 1/5 odds 1,2,3 ! What is the logical reasoning for the differing odds and place terms ? In 20+ years of punting i've not come across a decent answer. As I said, it is adventageous to the punter when betting each way where there is a short priced favourite. Non-handicaps are usually less competitive fields, having (on average) a much shorter priced favourite than in handicaps. Bookmakers can't afford to give 1/4 odds in most non-handicaps. Occasionally in a competitive non-handicap (with the favourite @ 5/1 or more) in a big race competitive market (on a Saturday or big meeting) you will find one or two bookmakers offer 1/4 odds to stand out and attract money. He is not able to do this where there is a short priced favourite, as his profit margin won't allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billvernon Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Cheers Gingertipster for the knowledgeable answer appreciated .:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Yeah definately think i will start doing win only on big runner fields in the mid to high 20's and over but i dont think there are many on the flat, are they? I now only bet on the Grand National (just a small interest only because IT IS the National) when it comes to jumps racing so could so it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoyRooney Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I think also with each way you must not let the price dictate your bet..For example if you thought a horse would win a race and was 4-1 you would back to win,but if you thought it would win and it was 20-1 you would usually back it EW..Why?? However,I say that but i usually back ew as i am a cowardly cagey fecker:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Surely the extra security would justify backing e/w on a 20/1 as you are getting a good price for just the place. Only my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? You should look at the place part of your bets as savers. They are usually evens , 2/1, 3/1 and so on. When you get a place at those prices and lose the winning stake it's not really a profitable bet, it's just a saver. I thought I was wasting a lot on the EW bets, but I ran results and I realized that I am on profit from the place part. For example from my +11 profit in January I have +4 from the places and +7 from the wins. I suggest you run results and see if you lose or win on the place part of your bets. If you make profit, there's no reason to change anything. If you're losing, just check if it's better to play win only and have savers on one or two others from the race. I think the combination of the two is the way forward. Sometimes horses are EW bets, sometimes they either win or flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoyRooney Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? Surely the extra security would justify backing e/w on a 20/1 as you are getting a good price for just the place. Only my opinion of course. Yes but you have to look long term..you could use the place part of your bet as a win bet on another horse.As i say that is my own weakness in that i back we when i really shouldnt sometimes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? When i have more bets recorded i will have to have a look, like you say. At the moment i only have a handful as i only started taking this seriously last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I dont back ew at all, in fact i only do Lucky 15s with Treble odds bookmakers, luckily plenty of the in my area. Always do 5 horses with one missing in each bet, eg ABCD, ABCE, ABDE, ACDE, BCDE and an acca just in case they all come in. 1 winner at 4 or 5/1 will save the majority of your stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I think the ew bet depends on the race and you have to treat each one individually. There may be a questionable favourite and the ew bet is because if the fav is good enough as expected you will pick up the place part of the bet as a saver whereas if it flops you may pick up the win and place bet by going each way. The ew bet can be a loss minimisation approach, the place part often meaning you lose nothing you have staked. (Similar to what Mileni has said) I like to bet each way when there are 8 runners and I'm getting paid 3 places, more so with a dodgy favourite. A lot of the time you can whittle a field of 8 down to 4 and then you effectively have a 1 in 4 chance of making 3 places but of course it depends what price you are willing to take. I think it might have been BH that said the bookies fear the big ew punters in these types of race. I've seen a few on course that lump on ew at around 4-1 for 3 places but at 1/5 odds in a non handicap race. I think if you fear the favourite you have to decide if you take another horse each way against it, back several others to win or leave the race alone. If you think the fav is nailed on but is a poor price any each way bet is effectively a waste of the win part of your bet if you don't think the fav can be beat. A prime example would be when Binocular was recently 1-10 on or whatever price it was, not a working mans price but is it really worth trying to find something to oppose it or do you just watch the race with a view to clues for the Champion Hurdle, that was my take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Re: Betting Each Way. Yes/No? Why? I very rarely back a single ew I would rather dutch or split it on betfair Say I was backing a horse @ 12/1 ew in a 16 runner race @ 1/4 place I would dutch/split the 2 sets of odds. Just an example not exact science.... say I wanted a 10pt bet i would bet 2.50pts @ 12/1 for the win 7.50pts @ 3/1 for the place simply because if it does hit the frame it only has 25% of winning but a 75% chance of placing so I want most of my money on the place part as that is the most likeliest outcome. But whatever you do you have to bet the way you feel comfortable with :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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