[Exposed/Unexposed]

Re: Exposed/Unexposed

Yeah, I think it revolves how well known the horse's ability is Have a quick look at the two market leaders in the 2.50 at carlisle The favourite has run 7 times and has finished 2nd or 3rd on it's last 6 runs..........it's not been hidden at the back of the field to get a good handicap mark. Having placed so often you can assume it's been trying and has run to its merits............therefore we and the handicapper have a pretty good idea now of how good this horse is............it's ability is 'exposed' in the sense of being known The second favourite has run just once, finished 2nd...........is open to improvement because he's only run the once, and after just one run we can't know how good he's going to be...........so he's unexposed in the sense that his ability is still unknown, he could be a lot better than he's shown so far in his one run As of now the favourite, exposed, has the better form but less scope to improve on what he's done The second favourite, unexposed, hasn't got as good form in the book but might be better than is form to date

Very well explained , don't think this can be bettered.

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Looks like the former champ ' date=' is starting to hit a bit of form . He had only 3 winners at the beginning of August and now has 11 with many placed horses . He is Sheikh Hamdans oldest trainer ( in terms of service , although probably age too ) and whilst he no longer gets the cream of the crop these days the ones which start off in handicaps are always worth keeping an eye on especially the staying types.[/quote'] Former champ John Dunlop has today announced his retirement. He's had a very long career training 1000s of winners and many classic winners. Which include Salsabil , Son of Sharp shot , Erhaab , Bahri ( who invented the route under the trees at Ascot when raining ) and July Cup winner Elnadim under multiple Group 1 winning jockey Richard Hills.

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Great to see Laytown on today , fascinating to watch and how they turn the beach into an adhoc racecourse. Why can't they hold it more than once a year ? I wish it was nearer to where I live.

[The Jockey Thread]

Re: The Jockey Thread

To be honest' date=' i don't know why Holland gets criticised by people. I have always liked him since he was riding when i won my biggest bet ever, he seems very tactically astute and good in a finish, what am i missing?[/quote'] Darryl Holland is one of my favorite jockeys , top class . However I acknowledge his quality of rides have declined in recent years which might be why some newer punters dislike him because they are not aware of his talents. Also for one reason or another he seemingly cannot keep a decent job for a prolonged period of time. He did stay with Geoff Wragg for many years but Wragg retired recently. He used to ride a lot for Godolphin , Cumani and Stoute but that has dried up of late. Prior to that he stable jockey to Mark Johnston ( pre Jason Weaver days ) and wasn't he stable jockey to Barry Hills ? ( or at the very least apprenticed to him )

[The Most Stupid thing you have ever heard in a betting context....?]

Re: The Most Stupid thing you have ever heard in a betting context....? Is shouting your virtual horse really that stupid ? Some of these races look very realistic , maybe its harder to distinguish once you reach middle age or of a certain age . I used to be astonished by the realism of the original Star trek , but watching re runs today I can see the wobbly walls and the monsters made from paper mache.

[The Most Stupid thing you have ever heard in a betting context....?]

Re: The Most Stupid thing you have ever heard in a betting context....?

'I was going to back that one' date= but I thought the price was too big' !!!!!

That in fact is a very good piece of advice , however I do understand where you are comming from from a value perspective. Many times I have refrained from having a bet because my selection had drifted like a barge pole or opened bigger than expected , this has saved me a lot of money over the years. One I do find strange is when they say " ....you need a 2 and a half mile hurdler to win the Grand National..." , Tommo used to say this all the time , maybe he was getting a bit extra in his wage packet from Willie Hills.

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

How wasn't he fit? He just finished 1 length behind Snow Fairy in a top Group 1' date=' where Snow Fairy broke the track record. Not fit me hole.[/quote'] I'm not saying he's not fit , theres no way we can varify that , its what the trainer was suggesting by saying he was overweight and this race will put him spot on for his next race. Had this race been the target , would the result have been the same ?

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Nathaniel and the Irish Champion Stakes fitted into my point but its not specifically about this one horse , what about the times when horses turn up when they are not fully fit . This is what I am saying is unacceptable. Only last month in the Olympics didn't the crowd boo when some badminton players who were playing soft against each other in order to avoid tougher opposition in the next rounds . What about when Manchester United field a team of 16 year olds and deliberately get knocked out of the early stges of the Coca Cola Cup. I accept these practices go on in horse racing and other sports but if nobody makes a fuss then it will carry on.

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread The betting aspect is not the point here , it was made worse because it was a 6 horse race and he was favorite. I'm well aware its all part of gambling. If the public are putting money on horses isn't it the duty of the trainer to make sure it is 100% fit ? Surely we are not still betting in an age where trainers are running horses in a race to get fit for a later engagement ?

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread I think its a disservice to punters sending a horse to a race where he is favorite and is not fully fit for the race. John Gosden in the last decade has made giant strides in shaking off his reputation of running horses which are not fully fit . Yesterday was a step backwards. Would a fully fit Nathaniel have won the race ?

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Is it acceptable that J Gosden says Nathaniel will need the run and is heavier than his normal racing weight. The main target is the Arc and not todays race. Its a Gr1 , a lot of punters fancy the fav Nathaniel . Shouldn't he have a duty to have the horse fully fit for the race and a duty to the betting public? I personally fancied Nathaniel but ended up not having a bet because of his comments . He made similar comments prior to the Eclipse but the horse ended up winning. Not very punter friendly comments. How literally do we take the form ? Is Snow Fairy superior than Nathaniel ?

[Irish racing question.]

Re: Irish racing question. Thanks for replies guys , can't seem to find the final pool size information , which is what I'm searching for to quantify whether certain pools are value or not. Robertob , the Irish Tote offer looks very good , best of both worlds . Will be opening an account soon. Does the offer extend to the UK Tote pools ?

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Haydock Cup Sprint hopeful Mayson has been withdrawn due to an "unsatisfatory scope" Are these reasons / excuses substantiated by any official body ? Would it be reasonable to suggest that the horse was withdrawn because the rain has not arrived . The horse won the July Cup which arguably was the worst Gr1 in modern history. The only Mayson could have won again was if it became boggy and his rivals failed to perform in the extreme conditions. Whats an unsatisfactory scope ? Are we supposed to read in between the lines ? Only last month a top trainer had the ante post fav for a major handicap at a major festival but at the overnight stage having been drawn 21 of 21 ( worst draw of all at that particular track ) the horses was withdrawn having " not eaten up " . What does that actually mean ? How are we supposed to know wheteher that is true or not. Are we supposed to read between the lines ?

[Irish racing question.]

I've never been to Ireland and don't know much about Irish racing . How popular is the Irish Tote ? Is it less popular than fixed odds betting like in the UK ? How strong are the pools ? I noticed on Wednesday in race 3 at Gowran Park the SP of the winner was 9/2 yet the tote paid 1.90 , 1.02 for the place ( 1/50) . The placed horses were both 3/1 yet the place divideds were 2.40 and 1.10 . Was this an anomoly or do you often see dividends unreflective of the SPs ? I'm interested in the daily Trifecta roll overs but can't seem to find any details on pool size of previous results , can anyone help ? The Racing Post don't have any details of the dividends unlike for the UK Tote.

[The Jockey Thread]

Re: The Jockey Thread

Clive Brittain had 3 today running in the colours of main patron Saeed Manana , all 3 were not ridden by Doyle . Doyle did however ride one for Brittain who the trainer owned himself. Doyle was riding most of Saeed Manana's horses up to a few days ago , has he been sacked by the ownwer or is it a one off ?

Seems like the Gr1 winning combo of Doyle and Brittain are no longer as I suspected in May , he's only had a very tiny amount of rides for Brittain since. Shame for Doyle , he's having a very tough time trying to re establish links .

[The Jockey Thread]

Re: The Jockey Thread Has multiple Gr1 winning jockey Mirco Demuro quit Britain ? His rides seem to have dried up even for multiple Gr1 winning trainer M Johnston who initailly supplied many of his rides. He's been riding in Germany of late.

[The Jockey Thread]

Re: The Jockey Thread Silvestre De Sousa last week got a ban for finishing 8th as opposed to a possible 6th . Athough the ban was sucessfully appealed it surprises me why other jockeys seem to get away with not giving 100% all the time.

[Racing Chat Thread]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Fantastic to see former champion trainer John Dunlop win the Lonsdale Cup after a very quiet season under mutltiple Gr1 winning jockey W Buick.

Looks like the former champ , is starting to hit a bit of form . He had only 3 winners at the beginning of August and now has 11 with many placed horses . He is Sheikh Hamdans oldest trainer ( in terms of service , although probably age too ) and whilst he no longer gets the cream of the crop these days the ones which start off in handicaps are always worth keeping an eye on especially the staying types.

[The Jockey Thread]

Re: The Jockey Thread

Erhaab' date=' maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and become an owner so that you can instruct jockeys how you want them to ride.[/quote'] If I could afford to own horses for recreational fun , not for prizemoney I would instruct my jockeys to get the best possible position . If I was having a punt I would make it crystal clear I was having a gamble and I want them to win. I would be happy to have R Hughes aboard.

[The Jockey Thread]

Re: The Jockey Thread

I am getting sick and tired of your Hughes slashing day in day out if i am totally honest. You don't like him' date=' fine, no need to bash him every chance you get.[/quote'] I don't anywhere say I don't like him, infact somewhere I said he's a brilliant jockey , I don't like the way some jockeys don't give 100% , Hughes is one of them and being a top jockey he deserves more critisim than the mid table jockeys. Also I had a place bet on Hughes in that particular race , so ended in profit . So its not like I'm talking through my pocket. It seems he's liked by some on here and given an opportunity he's defended blindly.

[The Jockey Thread]

Re: The Jockey Thread In last nights 8.00 Kempton , R Hughes on evens fav Jubilee Diamond hits the front a furlong out and rides a finish but as soon as he is overtaken by the fast finishing Spokeswoman , he stops riding but still clear enough to get second. He had no idea what was happening behind him , he didn't even have a look over his shoulder , once beaten it looked like he didn't care about the finishing position. I want horses to run their best every time , RIDE HIM OUT !!!

[Reckless Abandon bought by Darley]

Re: Reckless Abandon bought by Darley If I owned him having paid peanuts then I'd be very happy with the deal , although I'm speaking from a working class background , maybe I'd think differently if I was minted. Remember the 2007 Geoff Huffer trained Cockney Rebel , who won the British 2000 Guineas and also the Irish 2000 , the owner was offered £10million before his next run in the Gr1 St James Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot , he turned it down . The horse flopped and was subsequently retired . He now stands at stud for £4k . Which route would you have taken ? Mine would have been to take the £10,000,000.

[I'm still losing]

Re: I'm still losing In the newspaper tipping contests , they have a selection each day , whether they truely fancy it or not . Also if they did fancy it then I'm sure they would aquire better odds than the eventual SP .Maybe there are some selections where he would personally have treble the amount on . So a level stakes record may not be a true reflection of his ability. All forms of gambling are in favour of the house / bookie . Losing is a big part of gambling , you just need to accept / get used to it. For me its a long term game . If at the end of the year I get anywhere near to breaking even or even slightly ahead , then for me its a fantastic year . I can't speak for others maybe they'll tell you they win month after month . some of them are good at selecting winners.

[Why are English race callers so indecisive??]

Re: Why are English race callers so indecisive?? I don't mind waiting a minute or 2 for the official result , usually I get it the result right , although some camera angles are a bit tricky. The 5.35 Roscommon race yesterday ( 3rd Sept) was a photo finish , betting shop punters thought it the fav had won but Des Whathisname the Irish oncourse commentator instantly called the correct result . I think sometimes the commentators box is different to where the camera is situated. Sometimes they need to see a replay / a closeup .

[Reckless Abandon bought by Darley]

Re: Reckless Abandon bought by Darley Forget my example , I misread the OP . Darley purchased Authorised the '07 Derby winner midway through the season but remained with the connections till he retired. I think Cheveley Park Stud operates this method also.