Hand Review: 10c/25c (FR) 3

[Punto Banco]

***** Hand History for Game 7465390070 ***** $25 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, October 17, 17:15:45 ET 2008 Table Table 128367 (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Total number of players : 10 Seat 3: maathh ( $29.88 USD ) Seat 7: RounderSpade ( $25.87 USD ) Seat 8: MadeStronger ( $49.10 USD ) Seat 1: DannyOcean9 ( $5.32 USD ) Seat 10: wildnata ( $21.55 USD ) Seat 5: Morbius139 ( $28.14 USD ) Seat 6: black16mamba ( $4.50 USD ) Seat 2: MrsLabero ( $22.51 USD ) Seat 9: JustusHo ( $7.22 USD ) Seat 4: arrie50 ( $22.50 USD ) black16mamba posts small blind [$0.10 USD]. RounderSpade posts big blind [$0.25 USD]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to MadeStronger [ 7h 7s ] MadeStronger calls [$0.25 USD] JustusHo folds wildnata folds DannyOcean9 folds MrsLabero folds maathh raises [$1.25 USD] arrie50 folds Morbius139 folds black16mamba folds RounderSpade folds MadeStronger calls [$1 USD] ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Kc, 9s ] MadeStronger bets [$1.25 USD] maathh calls [$1.25 USD] ** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ] MadeStronger bets [$3.50 USD] maathh calls [$3.50 USD] ** Dealing River ** [ Ac ] MadeStronger bets [$5 USD] maathh raises [$10.25 USD] MadeStronger calls [$5.25 USD] Okay so what do we think the optimum way to play this hand is, I will run through my thoughts... Ok so firstly UTG limp is standard here hoping for a couple of callers which didn't happen however I feel I have the right type of image that I can take this pot down if I miss and it is the right type of flop. The raisers range is quite tight AK, AQ, KQ and above (perhaps an overpair, must be cautious). So anyway about that caution with the window a 7 fcuk that!!! Anyways I had chiped up earlier by slowplaying a set of A's (Kind of sp... infact I may put that hand up also) in any case with the K out there I figure to maximise my return I wont play this one soft. I put in a below 1/2 pot bet to perhaps give him a chance to push hard w AQ etc as other than the trap I have been fairly straight forward as far as the table has seen (Basically I feel he would be comfortable getting it in with KQ against me but if he missed may see this bet as a weak steal attempt). Anyways call. This bet is a little bigger however I still want to keep him in with medium hands (Perhaps JJ, QQ). The call puzzles me... unless he has decided to play it safe with KQ on the flop and then slow play (I am 100% he doesn't think I am semi bluffing with a flush draw) it which i am happy for him to call my value bets all the way. The final card obviously scares me a little however I feel that the chance of him having the flush over KQ or AK is smaller and so betting is wiser (could be wrong here. I keep seeing that perhaps my river play isn't the best or at least I am often a lot more unsure about what I should be doing on the river than at any other stage in the hand) in any case I have almost accepted defeat (hoping he has AK at this point) but with my pot odds at about 3.5:1 I can't fold here... any thoughts?

[Nade]

Re: Hand Review: 10c/25c (FR) 3 Back in my FR days i'd have played the hand pretty much the same. Only thing worth thinking about is the open limp with 77, when playing FR i open limped all pairs below tens and it worked a treat but thinking back on it now it makes your hand very 'face up' if you're getting aggro. post flop. I don't know how much you open limp, especially UTG, so although unlikely people are paying that much attention in this situation i think for disguise value it could be best to open raise any hands you normally open limp with. Because if you only open limp pairs then all of a sudden you're uber aggro post flop it becomes pretty obvious what's going on, i.e. you're aggro when you hit a set etc. I know the open limp strat. works because i did it for ages on PKR the only site i've played FR on but on that site they are/were the worst players ever and never adjusted. But just saying it's worth thinking about changing that strat. though not major ATM. Plus maybe bet closer to the pot on the turn like $5 as there's tonnes of draws out there but river is very likely to be a cooler, it's worth calling just to see if they're a huge calling station with like 54c or whatever and make a note.

[glceud]

Re: Hand Review: 10c/25c (FR) 3 Fold the river? I think its a question of do you call or shove as many chips in as you think you can get called by two pair with. Dare say the guys got j/10 of clubs or something, but over a million hands shoving here will offer the best return. For the record I would have bet more on the flop to create a bigger pot that I would have bet potsized on the turn. Like the value bet on the river though. Unless theres 4 to a straight or flush i you dont get stacked with a beaten set I dont think youve played it right.

[Punto Banco]

Re: Hand Review: 10c/25c (FR) 3

Back in my FR days i'd have played the hand pretty much the same. Only thing worth thinking about is the open limp with 77, when playing FR i open limped all pairs below tens and it worked a treat but thinking back on it now it makes your hand very 'face up' if you're getting aggro. post flop. I don't know how much you open limp, especially UTG, so although unlikely people are paying that much attention in this situation i think for disguise value it could be best to open raise any hands you normally open limp with. Because if you only open limp pairs then all of a sudden you're uber aggro post flop it becomes pretty obvious what's going on, i.e. you're aggro when you hit a set etc. I know the open limp strat. works because i did it for ages on PKR the only site i've played FR on but on that site they are/were the worst players ever and never adjusted. But just saying it's worth thinking about changing that strat. though not major ATM. Plus maybe bet closer to the pot on the turn like $5 as there's tonnes of draws out there but river is very likely to be a cooler, it's worth calling just to see if they're a huge calling station with like 54c or whatever and make a note.

I would agree with you however I feel like raising (especially UTG) really creates a negative expectation for the hand although there may be something said for varying the play and doing this about 25% of the time. For the most part at these levels people get all wrapped up in their hands and in terms of deciding what you have they will usually be influenced by what they want you to have. Nice point and I will probably try it out a few times however unless you play with the same people (Perhaps noting people that you stack with this play you can avoid this) there really isn't too much risk in continuing with the play. For the most part I really just think you are giving up too much value when committing more than neccesary chips preflop when so often the world will flip for this hand on the flop... :lol

[happyhornet]

Re: Hand Review: 10c/25c (FR) 3 I like the play pre-flop. I also like to limp with mid-pairs now and again, and calling the raise is fine. Dream flop, and you are almost certainly ahead (or drawing virtually dead). I would bet a little more on the flop, as it has both draw and straight possibilities but I understand wanting to keep him interested. Once he calls, I would put a pot sized bet on the turn. He has a King I believe (AK) and will probably call. I like your river bet, and I would give a lot of thought to a re-raise. Unless he has a bigger set (unlucky) or a straight (don't see it with his pre-flop raise and call on the flop- unless he has JTc, and he probably doesnt have the flush as the highest Club he could hold is the Queen. He raised with QJ or QT? Possible but unlikely. I think he has hit top two pair on the river. Re-raise him!!

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Hand Review: 10c/25c (FR) 3 my instinct is once you get min raised on the river you are generally beat here but its pretty hard and maybe not +EV to find a fold. I dont have any clue how FR [or poker at whatever site this is] plays but for what its worth IMO microstakes fish [and most regs] at full tilt and stars are passive without the nuts, and imo you will pay bigtime if you start to shove sets over the top of a min raise on the river on a board like this (I mean what exactly is a passive player min-raising here when weve just bet 3 streets into him?!?!). Im not going to comment on preflop as ive never played full ring (well since i started taking poker more seriously) but post flop I think you played it fine although your bet sizing is a bit wack, if you are going to donk the flop after check/calling pre then you might as well bet more, bet more on the turn as well, not too sure how that sets us up for the river but i guess we can cross that bridge when we meet it. I think your justification for betting small is okay but you are really trying too hard IMO, you dont need to get inside his head to beat him - just valuebet your good hands properly and you will take his money (half potting the flop is [almost] NEVER going to be good when you have a set). PS i like seeing cash hands on strat so post more more more.

[Punto Banco]

Re: Hand Review: 10c/25c (FR) 3

(or drawing virtually dead).

.... funny that ;) Thanks for the input I see the point that if I am going to go nuts value betting (If he realises the limp play he may lay his hand) I may as well value bet properly instead of trying to be elusive in terms of the opponent calling/folding it will probably happen even if I bet more. The way I played it saved me some money here however In the future i will be happy to take "Big stabs" at the pot on all streets...:ok