Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

This forum seemed to be lacking a thread of this sort, seeing as how teh pokers is more about your opponent and his tendencies than your cards. I bought holdem manager a while ago but im pretty sure PT3 is practically the same and so the same applies to both. What do you have on your HUD? I never really set mine up properly, i see videos all the time where the pro has about a gazillion stats that will never converge (and thus never be useful). Mine goes: Name/Hands/VPIP/PFR Btn Steal/Fold BB to Steal/Flop cont bet/Fold to flop cont bet/ Fold to turn cont bet/flop aggression/turn aggression I hate agression factor on its own, prefer to split it to flop/turn as a lot of fish play the flop like a mental patient and then the turn completely straight forward (hence why i like fold to turn cont bet). Im pretty sure i should have a few more as i find myself frequently rolling over the stats and looking at the bigger popups (anyone who has seen me play knows i timeout sh*tloads, especially on betfair where u get a tiny clock - OT) I know that a number of players on PL dont use a hud, imo this is a massive leak so i would like to hear your opinions as well. Ta

[Nade]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds I use PokerOffice2, which as an aside was rated in InsidePoker as the best HUD. Table overlay stats i use for 6max cash are: VPIP% - Because it's a standard mark which shows how loose or tight a player is. Saw Flop% - Because i feel able to narrow a person's range down more if i know how many flops they like to see. Pre Flop Raise% - Ties in with the VPIP but also works with the saw flop% as if the saw flop is high but raise pre is low it indicates they like to limp and all of a sudden they're raising big pre for example it gives me good info. Continuation Bet% - This is a recent addition and the reason i like to see this in play is because it helps me a lot when playing OOP. It gives me more confidence in check-raising with air OOP when i see someone puts in a lot of cont. bets. Generally though i just noticed people seemed to put a lot of cont. bets in so i wanted a gauge on it to try and use it to my advantage. I have used ShowdownsWon% before and it's something loads of people advocate and it is good to know when a player on the river re-raising big has a 95% win rate you can assume you're toast usually, but i just don't like pinning my hopes in crucial river situations on a number in the corner of the screen. I think if you've got to the river you should have all the info if played right to know where you are anyway and the stat also takes away the element of gut feel which although might not be right the whole time i think by thinking hands through from start to finish and coming to a conclusion in your own mind will aid the learning curve more then relying on computers for your river decisions. So as you can see i base all of my stats around what happens pre flop and on the flop because i feel able to narrow down my oppos. range really well with the info so i can then act on later streets. Also i just like to play poker and so testing my reads etc. is a lot more fun and rewarding without all the maths saying i should so x,y and z on later streets. People should just use what's best for them and if that's turn and river %s of all types then good luck to them.

[AJ]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds I use Poker Tracker, with the HUD. Much the same reasons as Nade, Pre Flop Raise % is a key one for me.

[Glen1000]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds I use poker office also. Simply VPIP%, PFR% and AT. Also have the little icon set up for 6 max - Telephone, fish, rock, etc. Seems to work fine for .25/.50 6max games! Nade, What do you call a high Cont Bet% and how many hands do you deem it accurate?

[gavham]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds As i have said before i do not use anything, i still dont understand how you can benifit from these. I play very different every time i play not intentional just mood or table. I think the best way to anylize whats going on at a table is to play for 20 minutes and then form your opinion.

[glceud]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

As i have said before i do not use anything' date=' i still dont understand how you can benifit from these. I play very different every time i play not intentional just mood or table. I think the best way to anylize whats going on at a table is to play for 20 minutes and then form your opinion.[/quote'] You mean poker is'nt just a computer game played by mindless computer nerds with out the intellegence to form opinions of there own? Indeed so characterless that they resort to a form of cheating to defraud those who still regard gambling as a matter of honour? Unfortunatley mate you are one of an elite band who are still more intellegent than the widely available software. So while you may not benefit the other 99% of us would, or do as the case may be. Maybe in a couple of years the software will have surpassed your ability too, but dont worry, I cant see too many live games allowing you to plug a P.C in at the table to make your desicions for you.

[Nade]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

As i have said before i do not use anything' date=' i still dont understand how you can benifit from these.[/quote'] Huge amount of reasons i can give for why people do, would or should use them, but simply it makes making money a lot easier. Glen - I think 75%+ Cont. bets is high. around 50% you can then gauge they like to mix up their play.

[robsterling]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

You mean poker is'nt just a computer game played by mindless computer nerds with out the intellegence to form opinions of there own? Indeed so characterless that they resort to a form of cheating to defraud those who still regard gambling as a matter of honour? Unfortunatley mate you are one of an elite band who are still more intellegent than the widely available software. So while you may not benefit the other 99% of us would, or do as the case may be. Maybe in a couple of years the software will have surpassed your ability too, but dont worry, I cant see too many live games allowing you to plug a P.C in at the table to make your desicions for you.

This must be one of the most stupid ignorant replies I've ever seen. Firstly pokertracker and similar programs are not cheating in anyway, they just display information which is already given and seen in the play. Secondly I don't think themole has ever said that the software is bad, just that he doesn't use it, which is totally his choice. I'd guess the reason he chooses not too, I may be completely wrong, is because he (a) doesn't multitable in large quantities as he plays quite high stakes and (b) because he is successful playing the way he has been so doesn't feel the need to change. I still think he could benefit from using pokertracker though. Even just to review hands after a game. By doing this he could see common lines used by his opponents with certain hands and find the main leaks that the regulars at his stakes have. And for a very nominal fee it seems worth a go. Anyway, pokertracker-like-software is by no means cheating. It is not "cheating to defraud those who still regard gambling as a matter of honour", whatever that stupid statement means. As for being "more intellegent than the widely available software", the fact that you are not intelligent enough to see the benefits of the software (or spell "intelligent") speaks volumes. As for live games, having the knowledge that pokertracker gives you, it is easier to work out people's opening ranges, how often they are folding to c-bets etc. As you can imagine it like a % estimate and apply that knowledge in a given hand. So we manage just fine without the PC plugged in, thanks.

[gavham]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds Ok surely this is a distraction as you should have enough to think about. Your decisions should be made at the time, taking all the factors of the hand into account.Things that happened previously will rarely come into it. I am playing devils advocat here but i am curious about it. I cannot see how it would help me at all.

[gavham]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

This must be one of the most stupid ignorant replies I've ever seen. Firstly pokertracker and similar programs are not cheating in anyway, they just display information which is already given and seen in the play. Secondly I don't think themole has ever said that the software is bad, just that he doesn't use it, which is totally his choice. I'd guess the reason he chooses not too, I may be completely wrong, is because he (a) doesn't multitable in large quantities as he plays quite high stakes and (b) because he is successful playing the way he has been so doesn't feel the need to change. I still think he could benefit from using pokertracker though. Even just to review hands after a game. By doing this he could see common lines used by his opponents with certain hands and find the main leaks that the regulars at his stakes have. And for a very nominal fee it seems worth a go. Anyway, pokertracker-like-software is by no means cheating. It is not "cheating to defraud those who still regard gambling as a matter of honour", whatever that stupid statement means. As for being "more intellegent than the widely available software", the fact that you are not intelligent enough to see the benefits of the software (or spell "intelligent") speaks volumes. As for live games, having the knowledge that pokertracker gives you, it is easier to work out people's opening ranges, how often they are folding to c-bets etc. As you can imagine it like a % estimate and apply that knowledge in a given hand. So we manage just fine without the PC plugged in, thanks.

I wrote my previous post before seeing this one, maybe there is something to gain from it but i find it hard to see what. Good players dont play the same way all the time. And your right its not broken so dont fix it, is the way i think. In saying that i am still curious :) Most hands at my level are won without a showdown so how would this form patterns of how my opponants play certain hands??

[robsterling]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Ok surely this is a distraction as you should have enough to think about. Your decisions should be made at the time, taking all the factors of the hand into account.Things that happened previously will rarely come into it. I am playing devils advocat here but i am curious about it. I cannot see how it would help me at all.

Yeah definitely I agree that game flow is very important, but not the only thing. Humans are creatures of habit, and I think often people will have more standard lines and ranges for making moves. For instance if you look through a database, you may realise that a certain player value bets very light against you (eg. he will value bet QJ on a J high drawy board for 3 streets of value against you) this means you could check raise all in on the river as a bluff if a draw hits as you know his range for betting the river is fairly wide and can't call a shove. By reviewing hands and using filters in pokertracker you can get a good idea of how regulars play their hands. Obviously sometimes the way they play will be effected by the flow of the game (more so at your stakes than mine perhaps), but you can definitely find trends in a players lines. Maybe the HUD display you would find distracting but I think as a retrospective view on hands you have played, you may find it Pokertracker useful. Simply just to go over any mistakes or weird moves that you made or saw. However, Pokertracker isn't as useful on Boss as it is on many other sites as you don't see mucked holecards in the hand histories.

[Nade]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Ok surely this is a distraction as you should have enough to think about. Your decisions should be made at the time, taking all the factors of the hand into account.Things that happened previously will rarely come into it. I am playing devils advocat here but i am curious about it. I cannot see how it would help me at all.

You may not play the same way every time, but i'm sure a lot of your opponents will and even if they 'change' their games accurate patterns of play will still be there over time. I'd say the more information you have on a player the more accurate you can be in how they play and therefore the more confident you can be in acting on it. Poker is very situational but people by human nature will play how they feel comfortable and this means they, I and you will play in patterned ways which can be exploited which is where software comes in, it shows the patterns then it's up to the human to act on this if they can, and have the bottle.

[glceud]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

This must be one of the most stupid ignorant replies I've ever seen. Firstly pokertracker and similar programs are not cheating in anyway, they just display information which is already given and seen in the play. So its ok for some to have certain tools in a game that others dont? It might be a freely available tool but not everyone is aware of it. Secondly I don't think themole has ever said that the software is bad, just that he doesn't use it, which is totally his choice. The mole never said it was bad I did so whats your point there caller? I'd guess the reason he chooses not too, I may be completely wrong, is because he (a) doesn't multitable in large quantities as he plays quite high stakes and (b) because he is successful playing the way he has been so doesn't feel the need to change. Your right. the reason he doesnt use it is because he doesnt need to. I still think he could benefit from using pokertracker though. Even just to review hands after a game. By doing this he could see common lines used by his opponents with certain hands and find the main leaks that the regulars at his stakes have. And for a very nominal fee it seems worth a go. Anyway, pokertracker-like-software is by no means cheating. It is not "cheating to defraud those who still regard gambling as a matter of honour", whatever that stupid statement means. You really dont get that do you? Gambling is supposed to be some form of intelectual challenge involving two parties with a sum of money or a forfiet involved. Truth be told if you knew the outcome of an event and could get some poor sap to have a wager with you you would bite his hand off and think nothing off it. As for being "more intellegent than the widely available software", the fact that you are not intelligent enough to see the benefits of the software (or spell "intelligent")(bet you use spellcheker or some other software) speaks volumes. I am intellegent enough to see the benefits of the software for those of you without the level of intellegence required to play at higher levels. As for live games, having the knowledge that pokertracker gives you, it is easier to work out people's opening ranges, how often they are folding to c-bets etc. As you can imagine it like a % estimate and apply that knowledge in a given hand. So we manage just fine without the PC plugged in, thanks. I believe you......................but going out into the real world from time to time might teach you a lot more.

Have to laugh when all the poker tracker etc advocators still post hands on micro to mid stakes on here. Even funnier is suggesting humans are creatures of habit and using computer software to counter that.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Good players dont play the same way all the time.

Why only play good players when there are fish that want to dumptruck their money at every level. your table selection must suck, i suppose PT3/HEM would be a good way for you to analyse your fellow players limits. PS. i am by no means saying that there are the same amount of bad players at .10/.20 as there are at 10/20

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Have to laugh when all the poker tracker etc advocators still post hands on micro to mid stakes on here.

why is this?

[gavham]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Why only play good players when there are fish that want to dumptruck their money at every level. your table selection must suck,

Are You mad??

[robsterling]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds Ha I really don't don't know what to say, but here goes...

So its ok for some to have certain tools in a game that others dont? It might be a freely available tool but not everyone is aware of it.

Unequivocally, yes! It's a game of edges, you must take every edge you can obtain without breaking the rules. Pokertracker doesn't break the rules (the sites allow and support it) therefore I will take this edge. It's a dog eat dog world.

Secondly I don't think themole has ever said that the software is bad, just that he doesn't use it, which is totally his choice.

I made this point because you seemed to extrapolate something from the_mole's comments which he didn't say or imply:

You mean poker is'nt just a computer game played by mindless computer nerds with out the intellegence to form opinions of there own? Indeed so characterless that they resort to a form of cheating to defraud those who still regard gambling as a matter of honour?

As for this:

I am intellegent enough to see the benefits of the software for those of you without the level of intellegence required to play at higher levels.

I honestly think I could beat higher levels than I play as I am a big winner at everything from 10nl to 200nl thus far (I have only been playing a year). But I am a student, who applies bankroll management, when I have a comfortable bankroll to play higher I probably will. Out of wonder what stakes does an amazing non cheating player like yourself play?

Anyway, pokertracker-like-software is by no means cheating. It is not "cheating to defraud those who still regard gambling as a matter of honour", whatever that stupid statement means.

Pokertracker and similar software does not tell you what cards will come out of the deck, it is not an unfair advantange. It tells you readily available information (you could work it out with pen and paper if you really wanted to). Therefore the intellectual challenge you desire is still there. So don't try and attack my integrity by labelling me a cheat. As for learning more in "the real world" I tend to think the opposite. I can play 600 hands an hour online, whereas live I can play less than a tenth of that in an hour. More hands = move experience = learning more.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Are You mad??

Off topic?

[slapdash]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds I think a few people are taking needless offense. Glceud has a long history of being "uneasy" :D about tools like Pokertracker, and I think he has a point. I don't think using it is cheating, because, as robsterling said, most of the poker sites allow it, so it's not "against the rules". But there's certainly an argument to be had about whether it should be allowed. If a particular site banned it, then clearly using it for that site would be cheating. Maybe it would be a good thing if some of the major sites allowed it, and some didn't, so we could choose? I've never used it, more because of laziness and because I don't play many cash games than from any ethical objection, but I imagine it's more useful for people who multi-table at medium stakes tables than for people like the mole. I'd be interested to know if glceud has any ethical objections to using it to gather stats about your own game, rather than getting a profile of other players?

[gavham]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds Ok here goes dog, The reason i play mostly good players is the fish as you put it do not have the roll to play where i play. Simple as that. You get an odd one with their whole roll but trying to get into that table is a job in itself. As for "my table selection sucks" can you please then explain why i am a consistantly winning player??

[robsterling]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds Not sure exactly what stakes are your mainstays mole, but on Boss there are without doubt some bad players at 5/10 and 10/20 especially in comparison to tougher sites like Full Tilt. As for table selection, Boss has so little traffic that I imagine there isn't much choice really.

[gavham]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Not sure exactly what stakes are your mainstays mole, but on Boss there are without doubt some bad players at 5/10 and 10/20 especially in comparison to tougher sites like Full Tilt. As for table selection, Boss has so little traffic that I imagine there isn't much choice really.

It varies but i would say mainly 25/50+ and yes the traffic is limited, so you play good players most the time. 5/10 & 10/20 it is certainly weaker opposition but i don't think the standard is that bad.Since coming back from Vegas i have played mainly these games ( stress free) and find i can demolish these games (+30k in the past week), although a lot of players like me also do the same thing. We have completley drifted off the subject of PT, but i am interested in the discussion :). I think all the rattles have been thrown now.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

Ok here goes dog, The reason i play mostly good players is the fish as you put it do not have the roll to play where i play. Simple as that. You get an odd one with their whole roll but trying to get into that table is a job in itself. As for "my table selection sucks" can you please then explain why i am a consistantly winning player??

in the same way that i could play EV+ poker yet still open fold AA everytime i get it, it would be more EV+ to play aces, but it doesnt make me a losing player. There are plenty of people who dont table select terribly well (me included half the time - everyones a fish,nit or lagdonk on betfair), but to ignore pretty much dead money is a crime higher up. In short, table selection is one piece of the poker pie.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds okay you might not like tracking software but please to god tell me you have some sweet 100% rakeback deal going on....

[gavham]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

okay you might not like tracking software but please to god tell me you have some sweet 100% rakeback deal going on....

I dont bother too much with rakeback. its not so important at the levels i play. i play on virgin through loyalty not for the benefits i recieve.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

I dont bother too much with rakeback. its not so important at the levels i play. i play on virgin through loyalty not for the benefits i recieve.

obv its capped but still do you get some pretty sweet incentives, full tilt traffic is shockin at high stakes recently, surely you could give them a ring or summin...:loon

[BAM]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds Don't forget glceud is chair of the Western Isles Luddites. I use to use it all the time but for some reason have stopped using it the last six months because as time went by I was finding myself using it less and less and gaining an inbuilt fishdar also helped.

[glceud]

Re: Holdem manager/PT3 Huds

I'd be interested to know if glceud has any ethical objections to using it to gather stats about your own game' date=' rather than getting a profile of other players?[/quote'] I have no objections to people using software to evaluate their own game, I dont have any problem with it being used to gather information on others(data minings a bit iffy though). What I object to is people sitting down at a table using software to help make their plays. This is no longer an honourable game as you are using a tool others are not. Were do you draw the line with what is allowed? can me and my mate make desicions together? or me and two mates, three mates, me and Phil Ivy, me and a super computer? indeed what about the super computer on its own? Is that O.K? I dont think anyone here has been playing online any were near as long as me and perhaps my bitterness is down to the fact that 7 years ago I could make £10 an hour at small stakes fixed limit hold em, I have watched that dimish over the years and I have no doubt that a lot of that is down to others use of software. In fact I know so. Funny as some one who's only income is from poker I seem to have the weakest dog eat dog attitude.