omaha /hilo basics for newbies

[ubermonkey1]

i sent this pm out to a couple of people who wanted to know how to play hilo but it does also explian the basic rules of normal omaha and the usual newbie mistakes as well. as the game is hi lo you are looking to get a high and a lo hand ,because of this with only one exception you should always play hands that will possibly win you both hands hi and lo,this is the most important thing about the game its called scooping(winning the whole pot) a high hand is as normal poker rules but you must use 2 cards from your hand this is one thing holdem players have trouble with .you cannot just add your ace to make a straight with 10 j q k on the board you must use 2 cards. so you would be ok with a 10 ,a j etc because you can use 2 cards to make the straight. a low hand is the best 5 cards lower than 8 using 2 cards from your hand again. these cards must be diffrent so a2345 is a lo but aa234 is not. a low hand is rated from highest card down so 76543 is better than 84321. 76543 is better than 87643. 6543a is better than 65432 because you are trying to hit a hi and lo at the same time you need a hand for potential with both nearly all the time. so hands like aa23 are very good ,if both are suited its the nuts pre flop. that way you have excellent lo possibilitys plus a high pair and 2 possible flush draws . also hands with 4 low cards below 7 are great, if you get a low board chances are you can hit a nut straight and get the low hand. any aces are always powerfull as they have hi and lo possibilitys:ok so usually i only play hands with 3 low cards hopefully with flush outs or hands like a 2 k j are also very playable ,again suited is preferable. the only exception is a hand with 4 cards over a 9. if a board comes down with 3 cards over a 8 you will almost certainly get some sort of hand ,more than likely a straight draw, or if a high pair comes it will give you trips or full house. also with 3 cards over a 8 nobody can hit a lo(you can't get a lo with only 2 lo cards on the board) ,so the pot will go to the high hand which is good because its a scoop. hands that are good in omaha like 6789 are pretty unplayable in hilo:eekthis is beacause your only going to hit your nut high straight if 3 lo cards are present,if that happens you are already giving up half the pot(somebody will almost certainly have a lo hand) so its really not worth it .so bin em:puke in this game you usually need a higher high hand than in holdem . because you have 4 holecards if a straight or flush appears you will probably be in trouble . people get more cards to draw with, so they have more outs . if you have two pair but a possible straight or flush is on the board be wary ,they probably already have it as they have twice the chance they do in holdem with 4 holecards instead of 2. the most important thing is not to draw for half the pot if thats all you can get, even if you get lucky its like giving up a 50%rake,so do not draw for 1 half of the pot . but if you get a nut hand 1 way( hi or lo )and a possible hand the other way its like a freeroll, keep pushing with the hand, if you get lucky with the other hand you may well scoop the pot. if you have the nuts 1 way and nothing the other you should be carefull:eekespecially if you have a 2 for your lo cards .there is a good chance you will be splitting your lo pot with your opponent so only getting 25%of your bet back. hope this helps ,any questions just ask:ok

[Guppie]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies You didn't mention quad 3s was the nuts mate:tongue2 honest injun

[ubermonkey1]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies managed to win a hand with 7772 the other day:) i decided that was omahas 72 off so thought id try and push ,which is a bit dumb in pl:tongue2amazingly enough i hit my other 7 and won the pot:lol

[Guppie]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies Lol nice one mate,have to start a 7772 thread:D

managed to win a hand with 7772 the other day:) i decided that was omahas 72 off so thought id try and push ,which is a bit dumb in pl:tongue2amazingly enough i hit my other 7 and won the pot:lol

[McG]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies Nice tips there uber - read it about 90 minutes too late :unsure

[Guppie]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies There is something in inside poker on hilo p66

[ubermonkey1]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies wish i had a little more money in my full tilt account:eyes joe beevers is on the $1/$2 hilo tables at the mo :loonbut ive only got $200 in that account so i'm not gonna blow it on one buy in.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies forgot to say about position ,pot building and also certain times when its good to push the pot if you have the absolute nuts one way :loonwhich are all highly important in hilo. POSITION your position on the table is crucial in hilo and omaha as there are many more outs than in holdem, so pretty much any hand has a chance against another and its rare that somebody is a huge dog pre flop, so you get a lot more callers pre flop. post flop your position will help get more info before your decision and can help to build up a nice pot as well:okin late position you can see the others bets and you can build up the pot nicely by raiseing a good amount for value calls from others. so in early position i will only be playing very good hands but flat calling. if you have aaxx in early position i wouldnt recommend raiseing ,but it would be ok to call a raise ,especially if its a value multi way pot. if you do spike your ace then some check raiseing is a good idea on the flop. if not then you should not be getting excited with this hand unless it has straight ,flush or low possabilitys. one pair is rarely going to win a hand and your chances of improving without others still beating you is slim. in late position i would be raiseing with a good hand usually to get a few callers and value in the pot.post flop if my hand still looks good i would be putting in as much as i think others will definately call so i can build the pot ready for a push on the river. POT BUILDING this part relates to pl . if you do have a good hand one of the biggest things is to get good value out of it. your bet sizes are a lot more important than in holdem because you are limited to a certain amount so some tricks you can use in holdem but not in this. bluffing is a lot more difficult/dangerous and should only be done in good position.its tricky to push people off the pot if it is pl because you can never bet bigger than the pot ,so players have more chance of having the value to call;)and with more outs its more likely they will. this works to your advantage especially if you hit a great hand both ways and someone has a great hand one way:) you can value bet and they have to call really,by doing this you can build the pot up nicely for a pot size bet on the river.either way they are in trouble now ,lose the pot and fold or call and face possabily quartering the pot. here is a good example: you hold a357 your opponent has a3xx you have position .blinds are 25 50 you put in a 3x raise otb which he called ,all others folded.you both have 2k of chips flop comes down 2 4 6 rainbow here he would probably bet (maybe half pot about 200)you should raise but only min raise to 400, you only need to get the pot to about 1400 by the river to be able to push all in:eek. turn comes with a high card no flush possible on the turn he would probably check with only the nuts one way, here i would bet 400 again:okwith 1600 in the pot he would have to call that size bet really ,pushing the pot up to about 2000. the river is a blank and he still has the nut low .he may push hopeing im only high or he may check.either way he will almost certainly call an all in which will only get him 500 back. the important thing is trying to work out your opponents holding and if he will keep calling you down:okif so try to get to a point where you can get him all in on the river. the same should be done if you have a absolute nut hand one way(no possible split) playing this way can also get you more than one caller and so really build up big pots:okif you hook 2 people with the same nut low hand and your high the value in the pot should keep them calling. its something to look out for if somebodys doing it to you ,its tricky to fold in these situations but sometimes its the right call.

[DM99]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies Looks great mate! Thanks for the info. I am looking to get into Omaha as a side earner because of the sheer number of people that have NFI. Do you have any other recommendations for the best Omaha HiLo books, resources etc?

[ubermonkey1]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies theres not a lot of really good stuff around :eyes i know sam farha released a book a while ago but i havent read it yet. trouble is its a bit more complicated than holdem and you get a lot of different situations ,so writing a strategy guide is probably more tricky(maybe i should write one) also as with holdem there are cash and tourneys to consider and although my strategy doesn't differ greatly between the two, i would say i'm slightly looser in cash than a tourney, and play in general is looser in cash. one good tactic that i would recommend is watching for players overplaying high pps:ok if they are playing js and qs hard they are on a hiding to nothing and ks and aces aren't much better:eekthese are usually holdem players that play omaha the same way:spank. why are pps not as good in omaha :loon well with 4 different cards you are about 50/50 to hit 2 pair and thats without possible straight/flush outs. if say a player that you have noticed only raises with a pp or very high cards then a call with low/mid cards is a very good idea;) this is because if the flop comes looking a bit raggy, the guy with the pp is going to keep betting at it:ok heres a situation to explain it better. the game is .50/$1 blinds you are on the button with 4 6 8 9 a player you have seen raise regularly with big pps raises the pot($ 2.50) and you flat call. the blinds might even call in this situation especially the bb as they may feel priced in,thats ok with you but you do need to be slightly more carefull as you dont know their hand yet;) so now the pots around the $6-$8 mark. now if the flop comes down with any 2 low to mid cards its almost certain you will have either 2 pair or a straight draw or a pair and a straight draw. any 3 low to mid cards drop and its happy days:nana:nana you will probably have hit a straight or 2 pair with massive straight outs but to a holdem player the flop looks innoccuous. heres a list of possible straights with this hand 2 3 5, 3 5 7, 4 5 7, 5 6 7, 5 7 8, 5 7 9, 6 7 8, 6 7 9,6 7 10 there are more on the end but i only count nut straights as a rule:ok now thats a lot of combinations to hit and if you do theres a good chance you take the other guys stack as he will probably be betting with the raggy flop . if you dont hit much on the flop its a easy fold with these cards ,but if you do its a really effective way of making good money:ok

[Guest]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies Hei Uber, Recently I've reached a couple final tables where the blinds are so high, the hands seem to become more of a crapshoot than anything else. In hold 'em I am quite used to the concept of push/fold poker, and in hi/lo I know a good starting hand when I see it, but do you have any advice for; a) how far to lower your starting hands when low chip stack b) at what point does it become "any 4 cards" As an example, last night there were 4 remaining. I had 18k, other 3 had 100k each. Blinds were 2k/4k. For the previous 20 mins I'd been involved in a lot of pots but always with reasonable starting hands. I made my final move on 10-a-2-3 (no flush) UTG but couldn't help feeling afterwards I'd been a bit hasty ....

[ubermonkey1]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies yeah shorter handed with high blinds it does become an all in fest:ok this is usually because as i said above there is not as much diffrence between one hand and another as in holdem. so it becomes viable to push a lot:ok if they fold happy days,if not your never too far behind. trouble is that its also usually viable to call or reraise as well because of the same reason:eyesso the money goes in a lot. a few tips i would give is . that your hand requirements should go right down ,but dont get involved in pots you dont need too. keep out unless you have a very good hand if your otb or sb, and its been raised in front.if you call it forces the bb into a call, then the pot is too big to back out of and will probably end up with you all in;) . if you see a player on the blinds folding a lot then target them if you can,they may well have their holdem head on. as it gets down to 3-4 players i like to play more high cards than low,this is because later on its more likely a high hand will scoop:ok if your heads up in a pot there is a decent chance your opposition wont hit a low,either becuse there wont be 3 low cards on the board or if one of their cards become paired. nothing wrong with playing your a 2 3 10 :ok its a pretty good hand normally and any ace when down to 3 players is a very good hand to push with. as i said above tho i would be happier with more high cards, but theres no way i would be folding that.

[Guest]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly think about it next time I get a chance. In hindsight, it's made me realise I din't play too badly .... when I checked the hand history I lasted more orbits than i realised when short handed just by betting in unraised pots. I do think I may have missed some opportunities though when in the big blind. With blinds at 2k/4k I folded a couple of hands due to lack of a low hand .... lucky to pick the chips back up from the button or sb. If ok I will post some hand histories for comment next time I play. Not too many guys I know play hi/lo (none to be precise) so any input would be appreciated.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: omaha /hilo basics for newbies yeah go ahead:ok i'm not the best in the world:tongue2 but i've been playing for 2 years and i do pretty well on cash and tourneys,so i must be doing something right:) as there isn't a lot of help out there on variants i'm happy to give my view and any advice i can.