alun Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Given that 2% profit per day will eventually make you rich if you compound it, and given that 2% profit per day (just 20p from £10 investment) seems a realistic goal.... .....what would people advise for someone wanting to invest £10 every day and emerge with £10.20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliando Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Re: 2% a day check out the glory hunters part of the forum - theres plenty of us making small profits every bet from laying. this should give you some ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Re: 2% a day Given that 2% profit per day will eventually make you rich if you compound it, and given that 2% profit per day (just 20p from £10 investment) seems a realistic goal.... .....what would people advise for someone wanting to invest £10 every day and emerge with £10.20 I think you underestimate how hard that would be. To consistently increase your bank at a rate of 2% a day would be HUGE. Sure, a yield (profit as a percentage of stake) of 2% is achievable, but that's a very different thing. For example, suppose that each day you found a bet at odds of 2.10 which actually had a 50% chance of winning. That would give you a yield of 5% (which is decent for bets at these odds). But you can't just stick your whole bank on every day and expect to increase it by 5% a day. If you do that, you'll lose your entire bank as soon as one of the bets loses, which almost half of them will. The best you can do is to stake about 4.5% of your current bank on each bet. Then each win will add 4.95% to your bank (i.e., multiply it by 1.0495) and each loss will multiply it by 0.955. So a win and a loss (which is what you expect from two bets on average) will multiply your bank by 1.0495 * 0.955, or about 1.0023, which equates to a (compound) interest rate of only a little more than 0.1% per bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Re: 2% a day you could trading though couldn't you. for instance. you have a bank of 1000. you lay a horse at evens for 1000 quid. your whole bank is on it, but you implement a stop loss so that in fact only a small portion is ever at risk. and then you take 2% profit if it drifts? moreover you can keep reinvesting that money over and over again so that means it should be even more achievable. i was thinking along such trading ideas because i agree, simply betting means that 2% is actually much higher in terms of what you REALLY invest. any nice safe trading ideas to achieve just 2% of your bank per day? al I think you underestimate how hard that would be. To consistently increase your bank at a rate of 2% a day would be HUGE. Sure, a yield (profit as a percentage of stake) of 2% is achievable, but that's a very different thing. For example, suppose that each day you found a bet at odds of 2.10 which actually had a 50% chance of winning. That would give you a yield of 5% (which is decent for bets at these odds). But you can't just stick your whole bank on every day and expect to increase it by 5% a day. If you do that, you'll lose your entire bank as soon as one of the bets loses, which almost half of them will. The best you can do is to stake about 4.5% of your current bank on each bet. Then each win will add 4.95% to your bank (i.e., multiply it by 1.0495) and each loss will multiply it by 0.955. So a win and a loss (which is what you expect from two bets on average) will multiply your bank by 1.0495 * 0.955, or about 1.0023, which equates to a (compound) interest rate of only a little more than 0.1% per bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Re: 2% a day you could trading though couldn't you. for instance. you have a bank of 1000. you lay a horse at evens for 1000 quid. your whole bank is on it, but you implement a stop loss so that in fact only a small portion is ever at risk. and then you take 2% profit if it drifts? I'm still sceptical about it being as easy as you make it sound. Trading like that isn't realy fundamentally different from betting: you're just betting on which way the price will move rather than on the result of the race. In your example, the price has to drift to about 2.04 for you to lock in a profit of £20. If you use a stop loss if the price drops to 1.96, then basically you're betting about £20 at odds of about evens that the price will hit 2.04 before it hits 1.96 (ignoring the possibility that the price might never get that high or that low). Even if you had a 60% success rate, your bank would still only increase at the rate of around 0.4% per bet. Also, you need to be able to get a bet the size of your entire bank matched, which would start to be a problem when the bank started getting big. I'm not saying that you couldn't make money like this. I just think you're being very optimistic about how fast you could make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Re: 2% a day I'm still sceptical about it being as easy as you make it sound. Trading like that isn't realy fundamentally different from betting: you're just betting on which way the price will move rather than on the result of the race. In your example, the price has to drift to about 2.04 for you to lock in a profit of £20. If you use a stop loss if the price drops to 1.96, then basically you're betting about £20 at odds of about evens that the price will hit 2.04 before it hits 1.96 (ignoring the possibility that the price might never get that high or that low). Even if you had a 60% success rate, your bank would still only increase at the rate of around 0.4% per bet. Also, you need to be able to get a bet the size of your entire bank matched, which would start to be a problem when the bank started getting big. I'm not saying that you couldn't make money like this. I just think you're being very optimistic about how fast you could make it. cheers slapdash. some interesting points there. what do you think is a realistic daily target in terms of %age increase in bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Re: 2% a day People who trade with there whole bank in a market are mental IMO:D. What if your computer dies or Betfair goes down? That second one happens more regularly than it should. I wouldn't have more than 20% of my bank in a market at any time, even when just looking for a few ticks. On another note, if you could increase your bank by 0.5% a day then it would be multiplied by over 6x in a year which I think is really great going. Remember that 0.05% is the average, so includes the bad days when you make a loss (which will happen!). If you started with a bank of £425 and did that for 3 years you could have a bank of £100000!:loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day On another note, if you could increase your bank by 0.05% a day then it would be multiplied by over 6x in a year I think you mean 0.5%? But yes, I'd be very impressed by anybody who could manage 0.5%. Personally, I'd be more than happy with 0.25%. Another point is that it gets harder to maintain a large percentage as your bank gets big, because of bookmakers' limits, not enough liquidity on Betfair, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day Yeah I do, was putting it in my calc as 1.005 and got confused:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day People who trade with there whole bank in a market are mental IMO:D. What if your computer dies or Betfair goes down? That's a good point. One of my low points of last year was when I backed a horse at about 20/1 on Betfair for a sizeable amount, thinking that the price would drop before the off so I could lay it off for a guaranteed profit (I was right, the SP was 11/1), but Betfair went down, so I didn't manage to lay it. (One of my high points was when it won. :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friskyfitz Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day That's a good point. One of my low points of last year was when I backed a horse at about 20/1 on Betfair for a sizeable amount, thinking that the price would drop before the off so I could lay it off for a guaranteed profit (I was right, the SP was 11/1), but Betfair went down, so I didn't manage to lay it. (One of my high points was when it won. :D) Oh how I remember that!!! :cow:cow:cow:cow:cow And it was 24.0 On Betfair if i remember correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day Interesting post. Can you clarify if you're saying 0.5% or 0.05% Thanks again for this Mr I People who trade with there whole bank in a market are mental IMO:D. What if your computer dies or Betfair goes down? That second one happens more regularly than it should. I wouldn't have more than 20% of my bank in a market at any time, even when just looking for a few ticks. On another note, if you could increase your bank by 0.5% a day then it would be multiplied by over 6x in a year which I think is really great going. Remember that 0.05% is the average, so includes the bad days when you make a loss (which will happen!). If you started with a bank of £425 and did that for 3 years you could have a bank of £100000!:loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day That's a good point. One of my low points of last year was when I backed a horse at about 20/1 on Betfair for a sizeable amount, thinking that the price would drop before the off so I could lay it off for a guaranteed profit (I was right, the SP was 11/1), but Betfair went down, so I didn't manage to lay it. (One of my high points was when it won. :D) :lol that's sooo jammy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day Interesting post. Can you clarify if you're saying 0.5% or 0.05% Thanks again for this Mr I Yeah mate I'm saying 0.5% which I think is attainable with decent turnover (without risking too much in any one market). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day Yeah mate I'm saying 0.5% which I think is attainable with decent turnover (without risking too much in any one market). thanks Mr I, really valuable advice. Does anyone have any trading tips to offer, or is there any good archive discussions on trading that you can point me to. I've traded before so know the mechanics but haven't been too successful overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datapunter Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day removed posts containing info that is considered spam, ( and related posts as it would look weird otherwise ) we simply don't allow people to advertise for personal gain. ( at least not without expressed permission from PL's owner ) haven't banned anyone, but i hope you get the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy88 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day Ok, no problem datapunter, If it is ok I will give some tips for free, then you decide if it is a spam or what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datapunter Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Re: 2% a day Just post within the house rules, http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41369 and check the rules on top of the individual forums, you should be fine then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
step1 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Re: 2% a day If only CaptK was on this forum.:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliando Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Re: 2% a day If only CaptK was on this forum.:ok :unsure:unsure:unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgey Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: 2% a day If only CaptK was on this forum.:ok I remember the CaptK thread! Can't remember what forum it was on (don't wanna know either!) but I printed the whole thing off and read it... twice! Man it was a long thread! :loon but that's what started me on my horse trading adventure! :ok I haven't traded for a while though, perhaps I should give it another go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyman9000 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: 2% a day Depends if you can find a suitable system. I've been trialing 2 systems over the past 3 weeks. One requires bets to be made during the day, the other one the bets can be placed before leaving for work. The first system returns an AVERAGE of 4.1pts a day, and the other one returns 2pts per day. Each one started with a £200 bank, which is now £615.60 and £303.70 respectively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyman9000 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: 2% a day My bank grew by 7.6% today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: 2% a day Would you like to start detailing the selections or ask if its ok to put up a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyman9000 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: 2% a day Would you like to start detailing the selections or ask if its ok to put up a link? Mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_isnt_going_to_work Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Re: 2% a day The thing 2% sounds easy becauses its a low figure, to be honest I doubt youd really be able to achieve this in the long run due to lack of liquidity in the market towards teh end of your run. If I said I wanted a 30% return you would all instinctively say it cant be done but 2%..... _______________Spam spam spam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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