Red zone Strategy in action

[GaF]

Buy Harrington on Hold'em Vol I (Strategic Play) from Amazon Buy Harrington on Hold'em Vol II (The Endgame) from Amazon Buy Harrington on Hold'em Vol III (Expert Strategy) from Amazon (Due to be released May 30th 2006) In THIS THREAD I spoke of different zones of play depending on stack size (as covered in the Harringtons book). This thread will give an example of a passage of play of 11 hands where the player (Harrington) is in the Red Zone (i.e. with an M of between 1 and 5). Hand 1 You are 7th to act. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $4,000. Player 1 $33,400 M=8 Player 2 $10,400 M=2.5 Player 3 $4,700 M=1 Player 4 $26,500 M=6.5 Player 5 $52,200 M=13 Player 6 $17,300 M=4 Player 7 (YOU) $8,000 M=2 Player 8 $2,500 M=0.5 Player 9 (SB) $20,400 M=5 Player 10 (BB) $4,500 M=1 You have Ten Clubs and 6 Spades The six players in front of you all fold, what do you do? Answer: You push all-in. With a red zone M, your only decision is whether you move all in or not. Whether you push all in or not depends on the answers to 2 questions. 1) Has anyone entered the pot in front of me? If the answer is yes, then you need a reasonably good hand to play, a little weaker but similar to the sort of hand you would require early in the tournament. 2) How good is my hand? The answer to this question is much less important than the answer to Question 1. Only the very worst hands should be folded here. Ten Six Offsuit is plenty good enough!!! Notice position is NOT one of the questions asked. With a low M position becomes far less important. Result: You move all in and Player 8 (The Button) calls for his remaining $2,400. The blinds fold. He shows A spades and Q hearts. The board comes Ad Kc Qh 7h 7s. You lose the hand This is a disaster - NOT because you lost the hand but because you showed everyone else at the table the hands you are prepared to play. Remember - your primary objective is to win the blinds without a showdown - you are now far more likely to get callers!! Hand 2 You are 6th to act. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $4,000. Player 1 $10,300 M=2.5 Player 2 $4,600 M=1 Player 3 $26,400 M=6.5 Player 4 $52,100 M=13 Player 5 $17,200 M=4 Player 6 (YOU) $5,500 M=1 Player 7 $8,800 M=2 Player 8 $19,300 M=5 Player 9 (SB) $2,400 M=0.5 Player 10 (BB) $33,300 M=8 You have 6s 2c Player 1 folds. Player 2 goes all in, Players 3 to 5 all fold. What do you do? Answer: You Fold - you cannot win the blinds without a showdown - you have no Fold Equity (called "First in Vigorish" by Harrington) so your hand is as worthless as it appears. Result: You fold, as do all the players behind you and Player 2 collects the pot uncontested. The BB made an error in not calling. It would have cost him another $2,500 to call the pot of $8,500. He had odds of almost 3.5 to 1. We know Player 2 had an M of 1, so could have moved all in with almost anything. The BB had the odds to call with any 2 cards. Hand 3 You are 5th to act. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $4,000. Player 1 $8,500 M=2 Player 2 $26,300 M=6.5 Player 3 $52,000 M=13 Player 4 $17,100 M=4 Player 5 (YOU) $5,400 M=1 Player 6 $8,700 M=2 Player 7 $19,200 M=5 Player 8 $1,300 M=0.3 Player 9 (SB) $31,100 M=8 Player 10 (BB) $10,200 M=2.5 You have Qh 7c Player 1 goes all in, Players 2 to 4 all fold. What do you do? Answer: You fold. Without fold equity Q7o is nowhere near good enough to play. Note the importance of fold equity - in the first hand we had little hessitation in playing T6o, but now we won't consider for a second playing Q7o. Result: Player 6 calls the all in and all other players fold. Player 1 had TT whilst player 6 had JJ. Player 1 survives when he makes a straight on the river. There is a big positive to this hand. Notice the strength of the hands shown by the two players. This may be coincidence, however may also mean that the other players at the table are only playing with stronger hands than you. Hand 4 You are 4th to act. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $4,000. Player 1 $26,200 M=6.5 Player 2 $51,900 M=13 Player 3 $17,100 M=4 Player 4 (YOU) $5,300 M=1 Player 5 $200 M=0.05 Player 6 $19,100 M=5 Player 7 $1,200 M=0.3 Player 8 $30,000 M=7.5 Player 9 (SB) $8,100 M=2 Player 10 (BB) $20,800 M=5 You have 3c 2h Players 1 to 3 fold. What do you do? Answer: You fold. You would play almost any hand here - however 23o is an especially poor hand and with so many players still to act after you, the combination of position and the hand make it difficult to play. Result: Player 5 goes all in for his last $100 and player 6 raises $4,000 to chase out the other players behind him. The others fold. Player 5's 76o are beat by Player 6's AJ and player 5 is eliminated. Harrington argues that it was wrong of player 6 to raise here and he should have flat called, to cooperate with other players to eliminate player 5. "In this case cooperation was trumped by greed". I cannot agree with this. Player 5 is in for $1,400 of the pot (ante's plus 4 x $100 matched of bets) - The other $2,800 is won by player 6 uncontested - If he "loses" Player 6 increases his stack by more than 10% - if he wins then Player 6 increases his stack by more than 20%. If player 6 wants to win the tournament (and he should from his position!!) he should be looking to build his own chips - not "sit out" to limp one place higher in the prize money (against Player 5 who would have to have remarkable luck to get back in the game!!) We now haven't played for 3 hands. In the first hand we were forced to show T6o - so hopefully sitting out for 3 hands will start to build some respect for our next all in move. Hand 5 You are 3rd to act. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $3,900. Player 1 $51,800 M=13 Player 2 $16,900 M=4 Player 3 (YOU) $5,200 M=1 Player 4 $23,100 M=6 Player 5 $1,100 M=0.3 Player 6 $29,900 M=7.5 Player 7 $7,000 M=2 Player 8 (SB) $18,700 M=4.5 Player 9 (BB) $26,100 M=6.5 You have 9h 7h Players 1 and 2 fold. What do you do? Answer: You have fold equity with a medium strength hand and should raise all in. Result: You go all in - everyone folds to the BB who calls and shows A6s. The board comes down Jh 8d 4s Tc Ks. You win the pot with a straight. Good news and Bad News - the good news is that you won a pot of $7,000 and survived. The bad news is that you had to show another weak hand. Your M is also now only increased to 3 - you are still in the Red Zone. Hand 6 You are 2nd to act. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $3,900. Player 1 $16,800 M=4 Player 2 (YOU) $12,100 M=3 Player 3 $23,000 M=6 Player 4 $1,000 M=0.25 Player 5 $29,800 M=7.5 Player 6 $6,900 M=2 Player 7 $17,600 M=4 Player 8 (SB) $20,900 M=5 Player 9 (BB) $51,700 M=13 You have 8s 7d Player 1 folds. What do you do? Answer: You push all in again. You have fold equite and a stack which will damage anyone other than BB. Your situation remains quite desperate with the blinds arriving in 2 hands. Result: Everyone folds and you take the blinds, moving your M up to 4. Hand 7 You are 1st to act. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $3,900. Player 1 (YOU) $15,900 M=4 Player 2 $22,900 M=5.5 Player 3 $900 M=0.25 Player 4 $29,700 M=7.5 Player 5 $6,800 M=1.5 Player 6 $17,500 M=4.5 Player 7 $19,800 M=5 Player 8 (SB) $49,600 M=12.5 Player 9 (BB) $16,800 M=4 You have 9h 6d What do you do? Answer: You fold. Your M is towards the top of the Red Zone, and you have been active (remember - you want to win the blinds without a showdown - opponents won't let you do that every hand!!!). Result: You Fold. Players 3 and 6 end up all in against one another. Player 3 survives when Kd 9c triumphs against JJ. Hand 8 You are last to act (pre flop). The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $3,900. Player 1 $22,800 M=5.5 Player 2 $5,500 M=1.5 Player 3 $29,600 M=7.5 Player 4 $6,700 M=1.5 Player 5 $16,600 M=4 Player 6 $19,700 M=5 Player 7 $48,500 M=12 Player 8 (SB) $14,600 M=3.5 Player 9 (YOU - BB) $15,800 M=4 You have Qh 6s Player 1 folds. Player 2 goes all in for $5,400. Everyone else folds to you. What do you do? Answer: This time the answer comes not from M or stack size, but from Pot Odds (you are the only player left to act and your only opponent is all in - all important information is defined and fixed). It will cost you $3,400 to call the pot of $9,300 - you are getting just under 3-1. Player 2, with an M of 1.5, and blinds in 2 hands could have played almost any 2 cards. Your Q6o is an average hand so you are probably a slight underdog (he wouldn't play his very worst hands), but with odds of 3-1 on offer, this is a call. Result: You call and he shows As5c. His hand holds up. He had a far better hand than expected for his situation and you were a 60:40 dog - so still had generous odds to call even knowing his hand. You need to be careful of your perception at the table - whilst the good players will know you had the pot odds to make calling with Q6o a good play, the bad players will just see you as a muppet who will call all in with Q6o. You will make them more likely to play with you (bad news!!) Hand 9 You are on the SB. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $3,900. Player 1 $12,700 M=3 Player 2 $29,500 M=7.5 Player 3 $6,600 M=1.5 Player 4 $16,500 M=4 Player 5 $19,600 M=5 Player 6 $48,400 M=12 Player 7 $13,500 M=3.5 Player 8 (YOU - sB) $10,300 M=2.5 Player 9 (BB) $22,700 M=5.5 You have 8s 7c Player 1 folds. Player 2 raises to $6,000. Player 3 folds. Player 4 goes all in. Players 5, 6 and 7 all fold. What do you do? Answer: Clear fold - Players 2 and 4 are serious about this hand - you have no fold equity. Result: You fold, as does the BB. Player 2 calls. Player 2 shows AdTc and player 4 shows 9h 9s. The nines hold up. With the small stacks winning the all in confrontations, the table is not shrinking. Hand 10 You are on the Button. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $3,900. Player 1 $13,000 M=3 Player 2 $6,500 M=1.5 Player 3 $36,700 M=9 Player 4 $19,500 M=5 Player 5 $48,300 M=12 Player 6 $13,400 M=3.5 Player 7 (YOU) $9,200 M=2.5 Player 8 (SB) $20,600 M=5 Player 9 (BB) $12,600 M=3 You have 6d 4c Player 1 to 6 fold. What do you do? Answer: You go all in. A hand better than 64o is desirable, however the button with no callers before you is too good an opportunity to miss. Your stack is big enough to hurt those behind you. They will be cautious. Result: The blinds fold and you win the pot uncontested. A quick win with no cards boosts your stack by almost 50%. Hand 11 You are on the Cutoff. The blinds are $1,000/$2,000, and the antes are $100. The initial pot is $3,900. Player 1 $6,400 M=1.5 Player 2 $36,600 M=9 Player 3 $19,400 M=5 Player 4 $48,200 M=12 Player 5 $13,300 M=3.5 Player 6 (YOU) $13,000 M=3.5 Player 7 $19,500 M=5 Player 8 (SB) $10,500 M=2.5 Player 9 (BB) $12,900 M=3 You have Kh Jd Player 1 to 5 fold. What do you do? Answer: You go all in. Given your recent action you have a chance of being called by a weaker hand. Result: The Button and the Blinds fold. You take down another $3,900 pot and your chip stack reaches $16,800 with an M of over 4. Summary: 1) You folded 5 hands, mostly when someone entered the pot ahead of you. 2) 3 times you went all in and were not called 3) Twice you went all in and were called. Both times you went in a dog. You won 1 and lost the other to a smaller stack. 4) Once you called an all in from the BB with great pot odds. Again you were an underdog and lost. This was not an unusual run of events. Your best hand was KJo. More than half of your all ins were won with no callers. When going to a showdown, you were never a faourite, but you were up against smaller (more desperate) stacks. You survived and moved up to the middle of the pack.

[chelskired]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action NOOOOOOOOOO :wall NOW!!!!! PLEASE!! I want to know what happens, I got them right so far and want to A. See if i would have kept getting them right and B. What i would have won :loon Off ya go mate :ok

[GaF]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action Have added the last 6 hands...... Any comments/points of discussion come out of this? Anyone "dare" to criticise/question Harrington? Certainly this is just one approach and other plays could be conisdered equally "right" (maybe - more so) - but what I think it clearly demonstrates is the need for aggression (and to take your chances) when short stacked. At some point, you get to the stage where you can't "see flops" and just have to shove or fold.......

[guesswest]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action Did you manually type all that Gaf?

[Masterplan]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action this doesnt seem good strategy to me, but harrington does make a lot of final tables, tho i doubt in internet poker it will apply so well, multiple callers and limpers are far more common

[slick mick]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action

this doesnt seem good strategy to me' date=' but harrington does make a lot of final tables, tho i doubt in internet poker it will apply so well, multiple callers and limpers are far more common[/quote'] Harrington's books are the finest on tournament play but you have to allow for the fact that you are not playing at the same level as him. Even so I have done considerably better in freerolls and small buy in events as well as sng's since reading them. However I would recommend them to nobody because I want to keep his secrets to myself:rollin

[GaF]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action guesswest - yes I'm afraid I did (but I feel I get some benefit through typing it too - it really sinks in if you do that!!!!!) Masterplan - I can see what you're saying, and in some online tournaments you are right. However - I try and play like this and an all in at the latter stages, even online, gets ridiculously few calls - in a big tournament, by the time this really comes into play, most of the all in muppets have been eliminated - and the remaining players have a fair idea that calling an all in requires some sort of a hand. Note - the correct play from opponents to an all in is usually to fold - as is advocated here - if someone is in before you, you usually let it go. With others trying to limp into the money/limp up the money scale - and being risk averse, someone with the "balls" to shove all in will so often get away with it. This is a strategy to get up to the major payout placings (or bust out) - not to limp into the money...... and that is why it often DOES work on the internet......

[slick mick]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action You could also try going through the problems from the point of view of the players who are yet to move when you go all in. What kind of hand would you need to call?

[Masterplan]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action one of the reasons why that play of hands might not work so well on the net is the speed, he shoved 6 times in 11 hands, while in regular tourny play those 11 hands could have taken 30 minutes or longer, online they would be over in 6 or 7 minutes, people's memory of the shoving will still be very fresh and larger stacks would be much more inclined to call with less than premium hands, knowing he will probably be shoving with junk, (in 3 out of the 6 cases). or calling with less than premium in the hope that he does shove or prevent him from doing so and picking up the blinds.

[Hedonist]

Re: Red zone Strategy in action I have just finished the first of the Harrington books, I intend to reread it before I start on the second volume to get a fuller understanding of it, one thing I enjoyed was working through the hand examples in the book, the trouble is that I would study and work through them for about 20 minutes before making a decision, in a tournament you are allowed 20 seconds to respond or get timed out! One paragraph in the book made me think more than any other, he described a hand (I cannot remember the specifics ) in which I think he raised with A Q, and three people acted after him, I was ready for the flop and the question when he said 'Ask yourself before the flop, what hands do you put the other players on?' What I have learned is that I have still got a lot to learn!