All Blacks v Lions 1st Test

[davidmphill]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test They could easily flip flop Robinson, Thomas and Lewsey between the wings and fullback, wouldn't suprise me as it will keep the blacks guessing.

[Smithy888]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test The ABs to take series 3 zip has been the bet from the start - these Lions are pretty awful and no amount of hype can cover fact that they have struggled every game so far and their best were humiliated by an average Maori team. Now if could get a price on Wilkinson coming off injured and not playing again on tourt before half time of second test, that would be the bet.

[Pie-chucker]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test As Robinson and Lewsey will swop, so will the first five-eighths and the second five-eighths -- tricky typing you Kiwis. Stand-off and inside centre would do it, but you will persist with this. :spank Notice how, throughout the tour, fringe Lions at the rucks raise a hand when ball is lost. They might try this as a bluff, once or twice, in tests. Kick to wing continues to be productive. 3 tries on tour and one disallowed for a forward pass that in Super 12 would have been considered as a 'good flat pass'. The Lions driving maul will be brought to bear, in the second half. 19-19 final score. :ok

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test

Ok, let's play 4 from each country (we'll take 3 English just to make you happy) and get absolutely destroyed. Can you name a Scottish player who is good enough to be in the team?

patterson, and cueto was picked as a replacement instead of him....

[dave]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test I was referring to the XV, but to be fair, Cueto is useless.

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test what a rediculous team, how does robinson get in the team if shane williams is to small?! Cos hes english how does an unfit fly half get in the team at centre instead of a youngster who can tackle better, run better lines and kick to touch further? Cos hes english How does back get in ahead of martin williams after playing fairly well against one weak side? Cos hes english How is Kay even in the squad? Cos hes english How is Thompson on the bench instead of bulloch? Cos hes english How is shanklin, possibly the best back so far on the tour, not get in the squad? Cos hes NOT english Its all true guys Evan

[dave]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test :rollin Not bitter at all there Ev. As Matty pointed out Woodward has picked more Welsh players than Graham Henry The English players are still quality individual players but, as I said earler Andy Robinson couldn't get them playing as a team. Woodward believes he can do that, and he also knows that if we're going to beat the All Blacks in NZ it will be with a very ugly game, not the attractive Welsh style. There's a big difference winning in Cardiff with 70,000 fans and winning away to the All Blacks, and it's the English players who have the experience of doing so.

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test wales werent very good in 2001

[dave]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test

wales werent very good in 2001

Correct, and as a result of the improvement there is a bigger Welsh presence in the XV ;)

[davidmphill]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test

Correct' date=' and as a result of the improvement there is a bigger Welsh presence in the XV ;)[/quote'] Cheeky sarcastic fooker!!! Can't believe Shane Williams isnt even on the bench! As for Thompson on the bench:wall i think i'll stop before i get too angry!

[dave]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test Thompson is a quality player EXCEPT for his throwing. Obviously that's very important for someone in his position, but Woodward obviously wants the different option on the bench. If he'd been in the XV I'd have agreed with you though.

[davidmphill]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test My mother throws a better lineout ball than Thompson does and shes in her bloody 50's! Agree with the choice of Shane Byrne at hooker, had to be really.

[MattyNeth]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test I think Bryne is quality. However most of his lineout throws go to the front which can result in messy ball. Thompson always seems to go long:\

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test bulloch is the best thrower, thompson best in the loose, pick bulloch, hes a mixture

[brookes]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test

:rollin Not bitter at all there Ev. As Matty pointed out Woodward has picked more Welsh players than Graham Henry The English players are still quality individual players but, as I said earler Andy Robinson couldn't get them playing as a team. .

The "England and token Celts" have not played as a team yet , it is their superior class and fitness that has enabled them to win most of their games. The English players may be quality BUT it is difficult to be believe that they are match fit and are they "the form players". I am going on the All Blacks - 8.5 @betfair.:hope You may have guessed I am one of those disgruntled Welshman that was in Cardiff to see the Grand Slam [ not an insignificant event in BRITISH and IRISH rugby ].:nana Pie if you really believe in the draw betfair are offering it @38s Woody playing players in different positions and will they swop ? - don't get the Welsh involved - G Henry tried complicated tactics - did not work in Wales. Rugby is a simple game - fitness and flair is the way to beat the All Blacks cheers

[dave]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test I bet you'd prefer to see a team full of Welsh players losing, rather than this one winning wouldn't you Brookes. I'm not saying that this one will win, but it has a better chance - IN NZ remember, not the Millenium Stadium - there aren't 70,000 Welsh fans to support the team here. A lot of the England players have the (very rare) experience of beating the All Blacks in NZ, and it takes more than talent to do that.

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test thing is, england world cup team didnt have to play them, they played non flair teams, like oz and then played france in the rain (stopping their fast handling rugby). I know a lot of england fans who count themselves very lucky that it was OZ and not NZ in the final. I cant see anything other than a drubbin with these teams, if im wrong, well done clive. But on paper this is NOT the strongest team they could put out. Evan

[dave]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test England beat NZ in NZ before the World Cup Ev.

[dave]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test I'm not saying, by the way, that the team he picked is stronger player for player than what you may have picked, but I just feel that the team he has picked will be the most suited to having a chance against the ABs away from home.

[PAULM03]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test

thing is, england world cup team didnt have to play them, they played non flair teams, like oz and then played france in the rain (stopping their fast handling rugby).

Without going off topic, this is an incredibly narrow sighted view of what the English WC winning side achieved in the 2 years running up to the world cup. We deserved that WC because we proved over 2 years we were the best whatever the weather.

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test you said it "you proved you were the best", now your not, but the squad remains answer my robinson question, why has robinson been picked if shano is too small?!

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test weve established that woody aint going on form and if he is going on reputation, how come martyn williams (voted player of 6 nations) isnt in the squad. It seems to me the that any fights for places are won by english players, except the wilkinson one, where they have chucked someone else out to play him at center Evan

[PAULM03]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test You specifically said the England world cup team I aren't the person to answer the Robinson question, try Clive Woodward.

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test lol i usually hate the scrumV message board on the BBC but this is just funny. People are saying Henson didnt get in the team because of his tackling the other day, anyone remember child prodigy matt tait, no? Gavins the reason... Before the game it was the big battle, after the game it was he wasnt old enough. I hope we get cained so badly that they can bring in a new coach by the second test

[evtherev]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test oh and by the way, before anyone says, thats just tait, he also upended white and shut down lewsey in that game

[brookes]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test I remember that ,BUT i am Welsh - it is the others that forget . cheers - saturday - lets hope woody is reading this or getting some of this feedback

[Pie-chucker]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test Back to bets! Sorry to bang on about the draw, but Centrebet's 10.00 about a draw either half/full seems good value. They've been consistent with this price throughout the tour. Half time v Bay of Plenty 17-17 Half time v Otago 13-13 others close Very possible Saturday. And 38.00 on the full time draw (thanks Brookes) with Betfair is worth a go. Also Cantor (spread bet) have the downside on total tries at 4.2. Given Lions obvious game plan and inclement weather predicted, that looks worth a SELL.

[rowdy]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test A lot been said about the Lions team, not much about the Kiwi one though aye! Any comments? Had a bit more of a think about it, and I reckon Leon MacDonalds pretty damn lucky to be there. Mills Muliaina has done nothing wrong this season. His only problem was he was stuffed around by the Blues who insisted to play him at centre, and then by the AB selectors too. The guy is a Fullback, and a bloody good one at that. NZs best by a decent margian IMO. Leon, who is obviously a very good player, not less than a year ago, gave up his AB oppertunities to do what most ageing border line ABs have been doing since professionalism began and ventured to Japan. He then bailed on his club side after less than a season for non rugby related reasons, and he and his wife came back home to NZ. He had a pretty good season with the Crusaders, but even I would look good if u surrounded me with all that talent, and now an AB call up. Its clear the ABs have sacrificed speed, attacking class, and line breaking potential, for basically the only thing Leon can offer over Mills, the potential to cover for injury. That was probably a long winded way of saying that I would prefer Mills over Leon, but it does lead me on to my next point. The make of of the bench. Its the strangest bench Ive ever seen. No specialist cover at lock, openside, fist 5, 2nd 5, or centre!! Instead theyve opted for 2 outside backs, and 2 blindsides. Hollahs absence is an absolute mystery. He could arguably be the 2nd best openside in the game. He certainly proved a massive point allready against the Lions when he dominated for the Maori. And now the ? over McCaws status, I really hope the make a change. Lauaki out and Hollah in IMO. For various reasons the AB selectors persisted with Brad Thorne of the becnh, and it was never a succes. Lauaki it seems is in there for similar reasons. Wrong ones IMO. The other change I would make, would be Conrad Smith for Gear. Conrad was one of the biggest attacking forces in the S12 and would be a huge asset off the bench. I really cant see the point of a specialist winger on the bench. especially when Mills can cover there anyway. Gear had a standout year, but IMO theres only room for 1 outside back on the bench, yes I know he has played centre, but hes not an international one, especially at the top level. In summary, yes it as a very very strong AB team and a loss would be a big suprise in this first test. I just believe 1) theyve left themselves very vulnerable in case of injury, and 2) It looks like theyve been quite negative and adapted too much to their opposition, rather than playing to their strengths, and selecting their best 22. At any rate this first test for me can only be a play on the ABs. Am gona do a search around for some odds , but at this stage, Im closely looking at a combination of ABs to win by 12 and under and ABs to cover the P/S.

[Pie-chucker]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test Guys, the 9 is too high here. Lions will play this by territory, possession, scoreboard; stats if you like. Any last damn thing they can eke out to keep it tight, keep it close. They will, at last, shut up and get a base from the scrum and leave it to the ref. It'll be mongrel experience in the rain. There are 3 or 4 in the AB's pack (Ali Williams is one) who will find it tough. This is not the game to get on an AB win of anything like that which would be considered convincing (ie 10 points). Trust Uncle Pie-chucker. Go Lions with the start. 9 is too much.

[rowdy]

Re: All Blacks v Lions 1st Test Ive consistently been giving too much credit to the Lions all tour, but for what its worth, I agree, the line on NZ TAB (-11.5), especially considering the weather, the Lions sneaky tactics, and the French ref, looks too high. However, the fact that the Lions have been utter crap all tour, and the likely hood of them delivering annother sub standard performance, I gotta go with a NO BET. Aside from the fact that I dont think Ive ever placed a wager against the ABs, and probably never will. Total points option looks my only possibility at the mo. Spot on with Ali Williams. Should have played the outstanding James Ryan IMO. Especially now the weathers turned to shit! GO ABs