Aidymac Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I backed Lucky Mellor last night solely because Neil Callan was down to ride the horse, i had a good e/w bet on it and now all of a sudden Callan is not riding it and Adam Kirby is up on it!! Im sure when people are looking for value in a race, the jockey is one of the things they look for.. So should there be some form of clause for the punter or some form of sanction for the owner/trainer if there is a late jockey change? I would not have backed this horse if Callan was not riding it.. :wall Just wondering what peoples views are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoolander Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? I backed Lucky Mellor last night solely because Neil Callan was down to ride the horse, i had a good e/w bet on it and now all of a sudden Callan is not riding it and Adam Kirby is up on it!! Im sure when people are looking for value in a race, the jockey is one of the things they look for.. So should there be some form of clause for the punter or some form of sanction for the owner/trainer if there is a late jockey change? I would not have backed this horse if Callan was not riding it.. :wall Just wondering what peoples views are Good point, i think the punter should have the option to: Cancel the bet Continue with the bet at the initial price when placed Continue with the bet at the new price(if greater) because of the jockey change. I too backed this horse and Callan was a big factor, Adam Kirby is a more than capable jockey so im not too frustrated, could have been a lot worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoolander Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Good point, i think the punter should have the option to: Cancel the bet Continue with the bet at the initial price when placed Continue with the bet at the new price(if greater) because of the jockey change. I too backed this horse and Callan was a big factor, Adam Kirby is a more than capable jockey so im not too frustrated, could have been a lot worse. In saying this, its probably to much administration to sort out for the bookmakers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? But capability does not come into it for me, i backed it because of Callans record on the horse... 1st and 2nd from 2 rides on the horse.. Just annoying but fingers crossed anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE % MAN Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? I would expect it would depend on the reason WHY he did not ride and maybe more concerns on the AW and TURF as over the JUMPS the jock in question could have had a bad FALL IN RACE before so cant ride anyway OR if he could would you then want him on yours in next race. Theirs no doubt some jockeys are far better than others but unfortunatley everything seems to be in the bookies favour these days. You may fancy a horse in a 16 runner handicap to get placed and 4 chances of doing so but if a non runner comes along you are down 2 three places and that happens a hell of a lot but at least in that case you can use betfair which is based on declared runners. Also if a meetings called off a few hours before the meeting starts more so on the jumps some top JOCKS whos trainer may have runners elsewhere will take the jock off and replace him with one from the abandoned meeting. Yet you may have already bet in that race and this may or maynot make a difference. A good point anyway but cant see it happening Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_eastern_ram Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? The jockey is quite low down the list of things im looking for when studying a race. It's more the actual booking that catches my eye than the jockey themselves if that makes sense. For example, if a jockey has a good record for a certain trainer or a fairly small yard booking a top jockey then that's something i'll pay attention to. I'd never back a horse just because of the jockey riding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Without a doubt you should have the option to cancel the bet. It's a disgrace when you back a horse and some ****wit ends up riding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjkmak Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Without a doubt you should have the option to cancel the bet. It's a disgrace when you back a horse and some ****wit ends up riding it. I would't call Kirby a ****wit. I actually thought he gave the horse a decent ride, he got to the front early from a bad draw and gave the horse every chance, just obviously out of form and I don't think Callan would have made any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Using the same logic... you would be able to cancel the bet if the ground changed, as obviously on turf, the ground is a big part of a selection... The change was hardly a late one, it wasn't like the Am I Blue incident! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? I think the bookies could quite legitimately argue that it's the horse that your'e backing and who ends up riding it can't be taken into account. Of course I'm very well aware of the impact a certain jockey can have and how they can improve a horse's chance so I have every sympathy but any rule change to take into allow bets to be cancelled for a change of jockey would be massively difficult to implement and also be open to all sorts of dodgy dealings. Imagine if connections were trying to lump on a horse on a particular day for a race that they've targeted to win. Maybe they don't get all their cash on at the price they want, or there are non runners with a massive rule 4, or the horse isn't looking on its game that day. All they would have to do is slip their jock a few quid to say he's strained his back on his last ride and cry off the horse and then cancel their bet until another day. Would you also want the rules changed the other way. A journeyman jockey is injured and can't ride your horse in the 320. AP happens to be at the meeting without a ride in that race so he jumps on it. Would you be happy if the bookies made a deduction to allow for it? Horses are currently priced up for the Cheltenham festival. We know who will ride some of them (injury and bans permitting) but for the vast majority of them, we don't and yet punters will still place their bets. Jocks are more important to some punters than others. I think I'll email my bookie and tell them that when I put my bet on last week for Arsenal to win yesterday, I thought Fabregas was playing, so would they mind if I cancelled it:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Using the same logic... you would be able to cancel the bet if the ground changed, as obviously on turf, the ground is a big part of a selection... Shit! I wish I'd thought of that. It would have saved me typing a long post:lol The point is a good one:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? There should be a clause which allows punters to void their bet if circumstances change dramatically such as the regular pilot getting injured on an earlier race. I recall quite a few years back , i put an enormous sum on Muneefa a Saeed Bin Suroor runner at Salisbury. J Reid was scheduled to ride but was replaced by Sophie Mitchell quite late on in the afternoon.I begged the betting shop manager to void the bet because it was several times bigger than my normal bet.He refused which i kind of knew would happen anyway.The horse finished second, i'd have had a bet 5 times smaller if i knew she was riding. Other jockeys who i loathed being put up late on my selections were G Bradley , N Williamson and J Osbourne. I would never be confident as to whether they would try or not , especially N Williamson and when i've already backed each way , he would rarely ride out for a place. Not putting S Mitchell in the same catagory in the 3 mentioned above , but i'd have prefered a group jockey on that occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenyatta Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? There should be a clause which allows punters to void their bet if circumstances change dramatically such as the regular pilot getting injured on an earlier race. I recall quite a few years back , i put an enormous sum on Muneefa a Saeed Bin Suroor runner at Salisbury. J Reid was scheduled to ride but was replaced by Sophie Mitchell quite late on in the afternoon.I begged the betting shop manager to void the bet because it was several times bigger than my normal bet.He refused which i kind of knew would happen anyway.The horse finished second, i'd have had a bet 5 times smaller if i knew she was riding. Other jockeys who i loathed being put up late on my selections were G Bradley , N Williamson and J Osbourne. I would never be confident as to whether they would try or not , especially N Williamson and when i've already backed each way , he would rarely ride out for a place. Not putting S Mitchell in the same catagory in the 3 mentioned above , but i'd have prefered a group jockey on that occasion. Sophie Mitchell rode for Godolphin ? Once a bet is stuck you have to take the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Kirby is a decent jock and no worse than Callan IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? There should be a clause which allows punters to void their bet if circumstances change dramatically such as the regular pilot getting injured on an earlier race. . That's just us punters talking out of our pocket though. We slate the bookies on a regular basis but would it be fair to introduce a system where a punter could void his bet if the jockey changed? I can see it now, two horse opened up at 10/1 and both have had jockey changes before the race. One of the prices has drifted to 16/1 and the other has shortened to 3/1 fav. I wonder what will be written on the slips of all those people queueing up at the betting shop counter to void their bets:lol As has already been mentioned, the ground is by far a bigger factor than the jockey and bets can't be voided if it pisses it down with rain all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenyatta Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? That's just us punters talking out of our pocket though. We slate the bookies on a regular basis but would it be fair to introduce a system where a punter could void his bet if the jockey changed? I can see it now, two horse opened up at 10/1 and both have had jockey changes before the race. One of the prices has drifted to 16/1 and the other has shortened to 3/1 fav. I wonder what will be written on the slips of all those people queueing up at the betting shop counter to void their bets:lol As has already been mentioned, the ground is by far a bigger factor than the jockey and bets can't be voided if it pisses it down with rain all day. With people voiding bets because of jockey changes the game would be chaotic. For example you own a horse loves fast ground, you put a massive bet on that changes the whole market for the race, it rains all day , you pull the horse and get your money back, the bookies wouldnt like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? With people voiding bets because of jockey changes the game would be chaotic. For example you own a horse loves fast ground, you put a massive bet on that changes the whole market for the race, it rains all day , you pull the horse and get your money back, the bookies wouldnt like it. Exactly. It just can't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Aye it's a pitfall, but I do back horses sometimes solely based on who's riding. today Neil Callan was replaced by little Danny Cook claiming 7lb who wasn't strong enough to take the horse to the front from the gate as Callan would have. Pissed me off. Dopom merchants, you're almost implying that if things go against a horse then a trainer has no way of not having it run, crazy talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? I would't call Kirby a ****wit. I actually thought he gave the horse a decent ride' date=' he got to the front early from a bad draw and gave the horse every chance, just obviously out of form and I don't think Callan would have made any difference.[/quote'] Out of form? It finished about a length behind the winner, ran a great race!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Sophie Mitchell rode for Godolphin ? yes salisbury 1999/2000 only one time though. Many bets i put on take into account the jockey , so when someone else is put aboard its no longer a bet i wish to stand. It should be a bit like shopping at Tesco , if the product has a fault just return it for a full refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenyatta Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? yes salisbury 1999/2000 only one time though. Many bets i put on take into account the jockey , so when someone else is put aboard its no longer a bet i wish to stand. It should be a bit like shopping at Tesco , if the product has a fault just return it for a full refund. Ill be honest if Id have backed a horse and Reid was replaced with Sophie Mitchell Id have started praying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoyRooney Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? It should be a bit like shopping at Tesco , if the product has a fault just return it for a full refund.it's not really like that though is it..its more like backing barcelona to win la liga at the start of the year,and messi,xavi and inesta get injured pre season, and are out for the rest of the campaign and are replaced by supposedly inferior players...ie you pays your money and you takes your chances.you choose to play on the field therfore you must take defeat on the chin and cherish the glory as well as the painful defeats..now if they changed the horse for a 15 year old shetland work pony,but kept the jockey then id be making phone calls.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenyatta Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? ..now if they changed the horse for a 15 year old shetland work pony' date='but kept the jockey then id be making phone calls..[/quote'] :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? If you place a bet on the day of the event based on the information available and this info was not accurate , then i think there should be a getout clause for punters. An example may be that the course have given out wrong going discriptions which has happened on occasions.You back a good ground horse based on the good going discription , but after the first race it is offically changed to soft/heavy in places.Under this circumstance i think we should be entitled to our money back. Its not like an ante post horse bet or a football bet where the event takes place in the future.If we're not given the correct information on the day of the event we should get the chance of a refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? now if they changed the horse for a 15 year old shetland work pony' date='but kept the jockey then id be making phone calls..[/quote'] Neil Callan for Danny Cook is pretty much the equivilant. Unless we're demeaning jockeys and saying anyone could do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Neil Callan for Danny Cook is pretty much the equivilant. Unless we're demeaning jockeys and saying anyone could do it. Its nothing got to do with the ability of the jockey!! If the jockey has a good record on the horse and i back it and then a jockey that has not ridden the horse before gets the ride, then i have recieved false information and my bet was placed on false information.. Nobody is demeaning jockeys for christs sake! If Johnny Farrell has had 3 rides on a certain horse and has won all 3 times but A P McCoy has ridden it 3 times and never been placed on it, and Johnny Farrell is down to ride the horse, well then i place a bet on it because of his record on the horse... 3 hours before the race McCoy is now on instead of Farrell so my bet was placed under false information, nothing got to do with the standard of the jockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Calm down man. People are demeaning jockeys, not you, but people are and I think it has an awful lot to do with the ability of the jockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? Calm down man. People are demeaning jockeys' date= not you, but people are and I think it has an awful lot to do with the ability of the jockey. And so what if they have an opinion of a jockey? I think Sam Thomas is a useless sack of shite, but thats my opinion and i dont expect anybody to agree with me but every punter is entitled to have an opinion on a jockey if they so wish! Quite hypocritical of you when you just slated Paddy Brennan a couple of hours ago on the jockeys thread... Would you do better? :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoyRooney Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? every one has an opinion on jockeys,good or bad,some people let off steam sometimes when they don't perform..But at the end of the day your deal with the bookmakers is for the horse,your bet slips shows the horse "horse x to win",or "horse y ew",and not the jockey..I do understand your points though of course,but them is the breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? I love Paddy Brennan, but he fooked that up today. I would not do better, nor claim too, hence my postings on THIS page. Fella up there said he'd moan if the horse was replaced by a donkey, I said my feelings are the same with an established jockey being replaced by a 7lb claimer. Unless implying anyone could do it, that's the same argument. I think things have gone a wee bit over your head, so scroll up and read again twice please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Re: Should late jockey changes be penalised? I love Paddy Brennan' date= but he fooked that up today. I would not do better, nor claim too, hence my postings on THIS page. Fella up there said he'd moan if the horse was replaced by a donkey, I said my feelings are the same with an established jockey being replaced by a 7lb claimer. Unless implying anyone could do it, that's the same argument. I think things have gone a wee bit over your head, so scroll up and read again twice please. So they have, i now realise you were on my side.. :lol DOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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