Irishbugger Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 That 6.40pm @ Kempton, his horse has ran without troubling the judge several times, same trip, same tactics today and yet it's backed off the boards before hacking up. What does he say in the stewards room about the improved form and the gamble? He does it time and time and time again, how does he get away with what is obviously cheating? Clearly in my view, not running a horse on merit a few times then doing it and gambling heavily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooner Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? How do you prove that the horse wasn't trying lto though? I agree with what your saying but where is the proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooner Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? For example they could just saying that the horse wasn't 100% for a while and they've just twigged what was up with him, I dunno how it works but for a human being, sometimes we feel down then sometimes we feel on top of the world, of course we perform better when on top of the world. Could this work with horses also? I'm sure plenty of excuses around, it happens all the time, horses with little form win. I just checked this one's form and see he was dropped four furlongs in trip, of course that was the thing that made him win. ;) Its annoying when you bet early, before the big market move comes, because you could possibly escape and leave it if you see a big move, when a Curley horse is in the race I know to expect the unexpected sometimes. It seems most people only notice the horses that win with poor form, just look around for the placed horses also, its very common isn't it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Some horses are that badly handicapped the trainers have little choice but to run them with a view to them finishing out of the frame and hoping for a drop in ratings. It seems some trainers exploit it and the big gambles support that. If he had run it over different trips with different tactics it might not look so obvious. There are a few trainers I noticed years ago on the all weather that run their horses 3 times over 6f/7f and then step them up to 1m2f + for their 1st handicap race. Trainer states that improvement was due to increase in distance etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Should have been banned long time ago. There are punting yards and misleading yards like Fahey, Ferdy Murphy and so on, but Barney is beyond rules. Don't like him and I don't think he does racing any good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? There are a few trainers I noticed years ago on the all weather that run their horses 3 times over 6f/7f and then step them up to 1m2f + for their 1st handicap race. Trainer states that improvement was due to increase in distance etc. Yeah Prescott deserves a whole thread to himself though :D I saw the gamble and covered myself on the horse @ 3s so it's not entirely pocket speaking and I know other trainers do similar, but this fella is a joke, he's been doing this so long without recompense, it does nothing for the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Sure it would be simple for them to put a stop to his antics!! Make sure none of his horses are over 2/1, no matter what horse, what form, what race, that would put a stop to it... I think people that despise Barney Curley have it wrong. If you were given the chance to do what he does for a living, you would not hesitate to do it. I know i wouldnt.. Horse racing is about making money, Barney Curley makes money and it is not his fault if the horse racing industry dont put a stop to it, he is not breaking any rules is he?? He is just using the laws of horse racing to his advantage... Heck, he is still owed over a million quid from a betting firm who wont pay him out... Fair play to him i say , long live the Curley.. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Sure it would be simple for them to put a stop to his antics!! Make sure none of his horses are over 2/1, no matter what horse, what form, what race, that would put a stop to it... I think people that despise Barney Curley have it wrong. If you were given the chance to do what he does for a living, you would not hesitate to do it. I know i wouldnt.. Horse racing is about making money, Barney Curley makes money and it is not his fault if the horse racing industry dont put a stop to it, he is not breaking any rules is he?? He is just using the laws of horse racing to his advantage... Heck, he is still owed over a million quid from a betting firm who wont pay him out... Fair play to him i say , long live the Curley.. :ok Totally agree, I would do the same if I could. You have to remember that not all gambled on horses win and not all horses that are supposedly "set up" to win a certain race win. He is very good at doing what he does plus if you do follow him I suppose you could make a lot of money. If you don't get superstar horses in your yard then it must be pretty hard to make money in horse racing with the rubbish money you get winning races on the all weather. I suppose at least you know if his horse gets well backed before the off (even if it has no form) then it has a big chance, and if the horse drifts then it has no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? he is not breaking any rules is he?? He is just using the laws of horse racing to his advantage... Actually yes, yes he is, frequent non-triers, which clearly a lot of his horses are a lot of the time, constitute rule breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Actually yes' date= yes he is, frequent non-triers, which clearly a lot of his horses are a lot of the time, constitute rule breaking. Ya? How do you know they are not trying? If thats the case every trainer and owner in the country would be breaking the rules... If he was breaking the rules, he would be sanctioned... He has not been sanctioned, therefore he is not breaking the rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awooga Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? to be honest I think the easiest thing to do (I do anyways) is not back anything in a Curley race as I just don't know about his horses. Same way as punters slag off jockeys yet still back them...you know what ''risk'' you're taking backing with some trainers/jockeys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Curley is bad but isnt the only one at it. The Quinlan's have lined up a couple this year, Neil Mulholland had one the other month smashed from 33/1 into 4/1 then pulled out with a feeble excuse and Stuart Williams has been lining a couple up of late, the most recent Osgoodiswgood, backed off the boards last week. The last one runs tomorrow and no doubt the bookies have marked his card this time and erred on the side of caution. The AW tends to put it under the microscope more because most of the racing is low grade and the trainers know anything remotely well treated can make an impact against what are usually talentless fields, full of exposed sorts that take it in turn to win. I personally dont like to get involve in the guessing games, predicting when horses are off, but know punters that do really well predicting when the touches are lined up. They must get a big buzz backing horses at long odds and seeing them smashed into stupidly short prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Ya? How do you know they are not trying? If thats the case every trainer and owner in the country would be breaking the rules... If he was breaking the rules, he would be sanctioned... He has not been sanctioned, therefore he is not breaking the rules It's often quite obvious to see a horse isn't trying. Maybe it's been held up when needs to be run prominently, or sent to the front too quickly so to deliberately run out of gas. If accompanied by a drift in the betting market, it's often quite obvious to stop. It's difficult to prove though, hence why we don't see investigations every single day (which will be the amount of times it occurs, trust me). And for him "not being sanctioned" therefore he hasn't broken any rules. Backing your horse isn't a crime, not running on it's merits is. The fact that he hasn't been sanctioned doesn't mean he doesn't do it. If someone kills someone, they still did it, even if the police don't find them out ;) Personally, I think Barney is great, and a decent racing personality. Very charitable too, especially in Africa. Not all his gambles pay off and I've seen his big drifters win (Aviso last turf season, opened up in the morning at 8/1 and won at 25/1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? I would say he's played the game within the rules of racing. He has committed no crime. He's been under the microscope since the 1970s and always been one step ahead of the game. He has spent millions of his own money on the purchasing and training of racehorses with the sole purpose of pulling off gambles. When it became unviable for him to punt in Ireland he came to Newmarket and set up as a trainer in the mid 80s. This was because there was too much leakage of info regarding his horses, and this way he could control the secrecy. As a trainer he owns the majority of the horses in the stable bar a few for his friend Pat Byrne and they need to be for paid somehow and punting is the way he does it. He's not in the game for trophy's , breeding or even the paltry prizemoney.He's in the game to punt for himself and not for the public. I have been an admirer of his for many years , long may he shaft the bookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis24680 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? I give Barney full credit he puts his cash down and gets his reward. Hes a face and a discussion point which is what racing needs, if they were all dead pan boring no frills trainers you wouldn't get the buzz and interest that racing needs. Imagine the preimiership with 20 Roy Hopdgsons and no 'Arry Redknapp ! As for the horse last night it was blinkered so in my eyes a good enough reason for the improvement plus he bumped him out and rode at the front the whole race. Harry Redknapp was there last night witth his horse 'Arrys Horse' he was telling everyone it would win, he put money down it came no where. Some gambles win some don't. Alot of Barneys horses are first time out after a long break. If your in the know on a gamble your on to a good thing but if your not you just have to take your hat off and applaud. The work that goes into getting a gamble right must be massive and i fully applaud and support anyone that does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Got a reply from my query on this run from the BHB ..... "Firstly, accept my sincere apologies for taking so long to respond to your email about ALLANIT’s run at Kempton on 16th February 2011 There was an improvement in form enquiry held, and the following is taken from it: “CURLEY said the horse has settled better than had been the case in the past, and was suited by not racing in headgear this time (wore hood last time). He also said the drop back to 1m was a crucial factor, and said afterwards that he always felt the horse was not going to stay further than a mile. CURLEY also confirmed that he had had the horse for three years, and that one of its eyes had had to be removed "a few months ago". CURLEY's explanations were noted. VO confirmed right eye had been removed, and CURLEY did say that the low draw had helped the horse - presumably meaning that not being able to see to its right it was suited by not being able to see other horses” Regards," I take back what I said, anyone who can get away with a stewards because a horse has 1 eye now has my respect!! :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? This guy should write a book. He tends to have some great stories to tell. What about the countless other situations? Does he remove eyes there too? The main thing here is that he doesn't lay his horses when they're not trying. Or at least he hasn't been caught like Howard Johnson and Ferdy Murphy in the past. That's why the stewards are not as hard on him. I hate Barney Curley, I've always said that. He should be banned. His horses aren't trying 99% of the time only to be well handicapped when he is trying to land a gamble. This shouldn't be allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? What about the countless other situations? Does he remove eyes there too? Stable full of one-eyed horsies, in the land of the blind n' all that :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? He had a book published about 10 years ago called "Giving a Little Back" I've read many many racing books and i regard this as one of the best racing books i've read. It may be still available on Amazon , after reading you will have a better understanding of his modus operandi. I heard he is working on a follow up book ,can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayalexander Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? What an explanation! Can't exactly complain about that :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? ^ Agreed. It was worth waiting 4 months for that reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? The stewards are keeping an eye on him........... ...probably the one belonging to Allanit :lol I can't wait for the first blind Curley runner, as he stands at the winning post ringing a bell. :eek Why bother with headgear when you can just poke their eyes out. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabbythecat Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? The stewards are keeping an eye on him........... ...probably the one belonging to Allanit :lol I can't wait for the first blind Curley runner, as he stands at the winning post ringing a bell. :eek Why bother with headgear when you can just poke their eyes out. :) Curley has this love/hate affair with the stewards he will always find a way to hide whatever hie is doing that is if he is doing anything dodgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darran Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? This guy should write a book. He tends to have some great stories to tell. What about the countless other situations? Does he remove eyes there too? The main thing here is that he doesn't lay his horses when they're not trying. Or at least he hasn't been caught like Howard Johnson and Ferdy Murphy in the past. That's why the stewards are not as hard on him. I hate Barney Curley, I've always said that. He should be banned. His horses aren't trying 99% of the time only to be well handicapped when he is trying to land a gamble. This shouldn't be allowed. He does what probably most trainers in the country do but just better than most. Everyone who has an average/poor horse wants it to be handicapped to win. The other thing he does differently is he likes a massive gamble. Again in my view nothing wrong with that given the low levels of prize money in this country. There is a simple way to stop this and that is to do away with handicaps. Mark Johnson mentioned it in an interview I saw a few weeks back and to be honest I can see where he is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystacks Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? ...There is a simple way to stop this and that is to do away with handicaps. Mark Johnson mentioned it in an interview I saw a few weeks back and to be honest I can see where he is coming from. Yes addpea, I saw that interview in which he listed his reasons for disliking the handicap system. However, it wasn't at all clear to me what he was proposing in its place!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? i nearly rammed into the back of Barney at York during the Dante meeting, was weaving back through the pack having coming out of the grandstand and just swerved to miss an old man with a straw hat. Turned around and it was him, the tache gave it away. Betfred still havent paid out some of the bets from his gamble last year. The shops have but he has around 800k worth of money to claim from bets placed online through friends and families accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darran Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Yes addpea' date=' I saw that interview in which he listed his reasons for disliking the handicap system. However, it wasn't at all clear to me what he was proposing in its place!?[/quote'] You just have every horse racing at its level and you move up and down the levels depending on how the horse runs. Everything is off level weights unless there are penalties. Its another reason why I love betting on hunter chases, apart from one race, I dont have to worry about handicaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystacks Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? You just have every horse racing at its level and you move up and down the levels depending on how the horse runs. Everything is off level weights unless there are penalties. Okay thanks. So it's similar to the grades used in greyhound racing, right? Presumably someone like Barney could just let the horse run in such a way that it gets to a low grade and still pull off the coup? To be honest I'm not entirely sure how a grading system is all that much different from the existing classified races, which are run off level weights for horses below a certain rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darran Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Okay thanks. So it's similar to the grades used in greyhound racing, right? Presumably someone like Barney could just let the horse run in such a way that it gets to a low grade and still pull off the coup? To be honest I'm not entirely sure how a grading system is all that much different from the existing classified races, which are run off level weights for horses below a certain rating. Yes but how many classified races are there? Very few. I suppose he could still do it, but it would encourage more horses to run to their merits because you wouldnt be trying to get them well handicapped. Also if they are all running of level weights and you had a horse who had dropped down the grades that horse probably wouldnt be a massive price anyway. Sadly it will never happen because the bookies would hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Re: Barney Curley - How does he get away with it? Mark Johnston should worry about his own training ability rather than the handicapping system. How many PUs does he have in a month? Probably more than other yards have in 3 years. And I'm not talking about small stables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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