More than one horse backed in a race?

[cornershop]

I'm guessing this is something everyone's doing that I've only recently discovered... is it worthwhile? Here's something I posted elsewhere, on a non-betting forum... I've tested a method out where I've backed 4, sometimes 5 horses on ONE race. All four times I've been in profit. Two of the races I backed, missed out on around 50 quid today as I had two races chosen with horses but was working with my brothers today selling coal and logs... anyway, the beauty about this way is if you get a winner, great you're in profit, but it's the E/W ones that get you the extra few quid too, especially when you back 1/4 races with 4 places. Yesterday one race, 20 euro staked, 2.50 E/W on each of the four horses I chose, returned 55...35 profit... Anyway, I'm liking this way at the moment rather than putting all your hopes on one horse at say, 10 euro win or 10 E/W. He could **** up, he might not run, whatever. Atleast you have four horses which atleast one should do well. There's a few nice betting forums I won't mention, but this site is a gem I just found the other day. http://www.oddschecker.com It gives you three horses they think will win on each race, and each horse with a star rating on the race card. Pick four horses, go 2.50 E/W on each unless you're dead certain you have a horse that can win outright. http://www.free-bet-calculator.co.uk/ For checkin' what you're gettin' And you're sweet. As I said four times I was in profit but, maybe I'm counting my chickens eggs in a basket too early, or this could be a handy old method, that's probably been done before, but I'm happy to carry on doing this considering the possibility of making atleast 30 quid a day. There's lots of races on in a week.

[torn up slip]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? In 16 runner handicaps it's rare I dont back two or more horses. Particularly when they pay 5 places. A case in point was the first at Doncaster today. I backed both of Gosden's and was actually pretty peeved when the percieved second string failed to nab Buick on the line. In fact, the more I think about it, I cant understand why people would choose to back just the one runner in a big field handicap unless they think they have the winner as nailed on as JC on the sticks.

[jayalexander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? :rollin It's called 'dutching' and is a method that is widely used. Yes, it's a way to make profit, but it's high risk as the runners that you use may not win, so make sure you do your homework beforehand or you may end up selling coal and logs for the rest of your life :ok

[TheBoyRooney]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? i often back two in one race,that would be one,my main bet which could be say,a 1pt ew bet,and a saver bet,usually 0.5pt win,works a treat for me but each to their own:nana

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? I would rather put £50 on 2 horses in the same race than £100 on one horse, yes its backing against yourself but its about profit, aslong as the odds are going to make you profit i dont see any problem.

[cornershop]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Thanks for your thoughts guys much appreciated. :ok

[Stevet1859]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Hi Cornershop, I would say its an excellent approach. Trying to turn the odds in your favour has to be a good thing. Keep your stake the same and divide that between the horses you fancy. To me, the big thing is 'win therapy' you need to avoid long losing streaks as best you can. However hard you try a string of losers affects your mindset. Good luck, and it sounds like youv'e made an excellent start using this approach too. Cheers, Steve

[Trotter]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? I agree that it's a good idea in theory, after all the idea is to make a profit But I've never actually done it.............:lol When it comes to shelling out cash I don't like the idea of wasting stakes. If i really can't decide between 2 or 3 horses in a race i either leave it alone or back the one at the biggest price. I'd hate the idea of backing 2 or 3 in a race then something else comes along and wins.............

[cornershop]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Trotter you're right, the main reason I did this was to improve confidence. Only started this on Thursday and haven't lost just yet... :hope My 2.50 or 5 each way could be some people's 25, 250, 50, 500 each way. You know? Just trying to cover some bad losses I made at the start of the week. :)

[cornershop]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Did the same method on 2 races so far today. 42 euro profit so far. It's something! Got two winners and two placed.

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Do you bet the 4 horse with the highest rating in stars or the 3 horse that timeform pick(they are normally the same)? Its interesting this, they have had two forecasts already from what i have been following.

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? I will try it next race at Newbury. Whispering Gallery, Hot Prospect and Jedi

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? None of them placed! Next race. Russian Flag Safari Adventures Fortysecond Street

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Staking 2.50 each way on each horse -15 for first race Russian flag placed @ 8-1 in 2nd race -7.50 will pick another race out in a bit These two losers but i did see two that had the tricasts at good odds

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? 3:05 Chepstow 1: INTAC (IRE) 2: MISTER WISEMAN 3: RUSSELLSTOWN BOY (IRE)

[cornershop]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Okay so one time out of the seven I've been down. Going to go that bit further with what may be my last race if nothing happens...

4.00 Aintree ¼ 4 Places

Rey Nacarado (4 Star) 5/1 SP 5 E/W Win returns 41.25 Placed Returns 11.25 Lost Glory (4 Star) 6/1 SP 5 E/W Win returns 47.50 Placed Returns 12.50 Daring Origyn (3 Star) 12/1 SP 5 E/W Win returns 85 Placed Returns 20 Identity Parade (3 Star) 12/1 SP 5 E/W Win returns 85 Placed Returns 20

Odds with Boylesports....

[cornershop]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Some of you may have got 16/1 for Daring Origyn if you did this bet, he placed. Around a tenner down on this one. Hmmm.. I don't know you just have to study the races more and pick the best race/horses. EDIT: Actually lost around 4 quid on this one. Still think it's okay as if I'd have chosen one horse and did 20 E/W I'd have been 40 down as opposed to 4 quid down.

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Ye im not knocking it, like i said i seen two tricasts come up which you would have made a fortune. Maybe look at the betting and if money comes for a horse not in the selection then be more cautious. Stick with it if its making profit. I will do it the odd time especially when the races are poor quality and i have no idea whats got a chance.

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Stratford 4:25 1: PAINT THE CLOUDS 2: PILGREEN (FR) 3: CITRUS MARK

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race?

Stratford 4:25 1: PAINT THE CLOUDS 2: PILGREEN (FR) 3: CITRUS MARK

This one made a small profit. Paint the clouds 5 points win (too short ot back each way) returned : Won +9 points @4/5 Pilgreen 2.5 points each way returned : placed + 6.5pts @ 8-1 Citrus Mark 2.5 points each way : returned : lost - 5pts 15.5pts return -15pts = 0.50 points profit

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Kempton 2:40 1: ZAIN SHAMARDAL (IRE) (5pts WIN) 2: DENY (2.5pts EW) 3: SPLASH POINT (USA) (2.5pts EW) Results 1st Splash Point 8/1 +27.50pts 2nd Zain Shamardal 13/8 -5pts NP Deny 11-1 -5pts 27.50pts - 15pts = 12.50pts profit

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Southwell 3:20 1: POSTMAN (2.5pts EW) @ 4-1 2: FULL VICTORY (IRE) (2.5pts EW) @ 10-1 3: RASCAL IN THE MIX (USA) (2.5pts EW) @ 11-1

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race?

Southwell 3:20 1: POSTMAN (2.5pts EW) @ 4-1 2: FULL VICTORY (IRE) (2.5pts EW) @ 10-1 3: RASCAL IN THE MIX (USA) (2.5pts EW) @ 11-1

Whitwash, no places. Postman worse run from a favorite i have seen for a while.

[kerznerpunt]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? dunno use to dutch few years ago, made some profit but it very much takes time and ur bankroll is growing very slowly , i dont believe its the philosophers stone to be honest...

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Yes was just testing it out and showing some results. Race selection is very important and making sure the horses selected are worthwhile value. But as you say takes a lot of time and effort......

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? Stick with it Zoolander. 9 times out of 10 i back 2 in the same race but i also have never felt the need to back horses everyday, i aim for a big win then if it comes off i go and enjoy it, if your backing horses everyday then your trying to back winners every day, and you must know how hard that is. If poss try and pick out a race for saturday and a Key up and coming race, focus nothing more than on that 1 race, select your horse then select your danger, it can become a nice way to live without ''TRYING'' to win every single day, you will find there is not one single Pro gambler that bets on a daily basis. But stick with it ok. :ok

[zoolander]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race?

Stick with it Zoolander. 9 times out of 10 i back 2 in the same race but i also have never felt the need to back horses everyday, i aim for a big win then if it comes off i go and enjoy it, if your backing horses everyday then your trying to back winners every day, and you must know how hard that is. If poss try and pick out a race for saturday and a Key up and coming race, focus nothing more than on that 1 race, select your horse then select your danger, it can become a nice way to live without ''TRYING'' to win every single day, you will find there is not one single Pro gambler that bets on a daily basis. But stick with it ok. :ok

Cheers Jimmy, what you say is true. It wasnt my system i just thought it was interesting and would post some results up to see how it worked out, could back test it to get a more accurate likely return. I generally dont gamble on horse racing early in the week as i think the standard is generally pretty poor, Thursday onwards is much better and my strike rate seems to coincide with that too. I will keep this thread going and post the odd race here and there just for interest.

[kerznerpunt]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? hmm... my betting frequency is very high, nearly bet on 70% of all NH races, but to be honest i cant complain as im usually betting on 10/1 or higher and most of the time i get one in.... i think u cant say generally that frequency is a factor of success when betting... some people tend to analyse races for hours and wait til they believe they spotted the "wrong" price, then they put a quid on it... others like me getting rough look at the card and ask theirselves wheter the market is on the right ones or not...and i believe the market gets it wrong awful a lot of times..

[Gingertipster]

Re: More than one horse backed in a race? I usually back more than one in a race. Most I've backed was 11 in the National, taking a combined price of 11/10 about getting the winner. Would like to have claimed a 40/1 winner with Silver Birch. :lol. Also had the second McKelvey @ 33/1. When dutching you need to believe all horses backed are value (worth a bet at the price). It should not be thought of as “backing against yourself”, better to think of it as taking a “combined price”. If backing two 3/1 (fair 25%) chances, then the price you are taking is 2 x 25% = 50% = Evens. Ie If a punter backs both to win the same amount, the individual 3/1 winner should be thought of as a combined Evens chance, not 3/1. £1 on both horses (overall stake £2) means a winner returns £4 (£3 winnings plus £1 stake). Exactly the same over all stake and return as a punter betting £2 on one Even money chance. £2 @ Evens also returns £4. Punters who bet only one horse in a race at an average price of 3/1 will need a strike rate of more than 25% to make a profit (with level stakes). Obviously a punter backing more than one horse per race will win more often, but... A Dutching punter with an average combined price of Evens will need a better than 50% strike rate to make a profit (with level stakes). Backing one 4/1 (20%) shot and one 13/2 (13.33%) shot means you are taking a combined price of 2/1 (20 + 13.33 = 33.33%). Staking 20 points @ 4/1 returns 100 points (20 x 4 = 80 + 20 point stake = 100). Staking 13.33 points @ 13/2 returns 99.98 points (13.33 x 6.5 = 86.65 + 13.33 = 99.98). So whatever horse wins returns roughly 100 points. Staking the same over all stake of 33.33 points @ 2/1 returns the same 100 points (almost) (33.33 x 2 = 66.66 + 33.33 = 99.99). The difference only due to 13/2 being 13.3333 recurring and 2/1 being 33.3333 recurring. When dutching a punter might think he's doing better because he's winning more often, but he needs a greater strike rate than a punter backing one horse. Conversely, a punter who backs just one horse in a race will not need lesser strike rate to make a profit than a dutching punter. Neither is better than the other, both rely on value to make a profit. Dutching does help maintain confidence which can't be a bad thing, winning more often. Also, value punters often see more than one value horse in a race. Backing both horses, unless one is far better value than the other.