Warbirds Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 There was talk of winning players being banned from iPoker skins, and now this: http://www.bluffeurope.com/poker-news/en/-Blonde-Poker-set-for-iPoker-axe-due-to-winning-players_6212.aspx (I don't want to advertise for another forum although the full thread is linked at the end of the Bluff article and it makes for amazing reading...) What can be the reasoning behind this? After all unlike in sports bettings the rooms do not actually loose their own money to winning players? Is it because they are trying to be viewed as "fish tanks" in order to attract more new players??? Sounds crazy... :eek Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players Actually, I have to confess, I feel I can understand it to an extent (though I've only skimmed the article and not looked at the blonde thread) and I imagine it encapsulates something I've long thought. Every network needs to recruit fish to feed the sharks. Get the fish and the sharks will surely follow. Recruiting fish costs lots of money. Recruiting sharks should be pretty cheap - they'll want to be there, and when they are there, they'll play more volume for longer, whereas after the fish have gone busto x times, then they'll eventually give up and stop playing. Where a network is one skin - such as Full Tilt and Pokerstars then they need to recruit the fish to feed the sharks that play on their network. They pay the costs of recruiting the fish and reap the rewards of the fees paid by the fish and sharks. However, where a network is made up of multiple skins, then it is a completely different dynamic. Skins should have no incentive to recruit the fish, to feed others sharks - instead their optimal strategy should be to recruit the sharks and leech off of the fish provided by the network/other skins (I'm not saying that this is what Blonde did - deliberately or otherwise) - because the sharks are the ones who provide the volume at low recruitment cost. Because of this, I've always thought that the responsability for recruiting the fish, should lay more with the network than the skins - indeed I've often found it difficult to understand why skins put as much energy into recruiting fish as they often do. In a similar vane - for the very same reasoning I often thought that it was in a skins interests to work hard at educating their players, and improving their profitability - but equally that this is not in the networks interest. When you look at the Full Tilt free training at stoxpoker/cardrunner therefore, I've been a bit baffled by it, because Full Tilt are the network - and by educating their players, they're making the waters shark infested and harder to adequately feed - I think they're far better off keeping the players ignorant/uneducated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players ...a further factor in the strong growth of iPoker was the number of sportsbooks on the network, including Bet365, Paddy Power and William Hill I think the Sportbooks noticed that the more their players (fish) lost in poker, the less they spend on sportbetting on their site in the end of each month, and they make a lot more from sportsbetting then from rake with poker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players I've just started reading the Blonde thread - about half way through. Who are Aqua? Are they an intermediary between Blonde (and other skins) and iPoker? In a way, what Tusk were to microgaming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players Hmmm... did punterlounge ever considered staring an own pokerskin like Blonde did? :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goater14 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players So the jist of this is that i-poker don,t like skins who have a high volume of winning players? Interesting to see what will happen to blackbelt poker who play under a i-poker skin and I would imagine will have a high turnover of winning players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players Hmmm... did punterlounge ever considered staring an own pokerskin like Blonde did? :tongue2 I think there's a fine for too many fish ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlunB Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players It's a major problem for sites on a network. Look at it from, say, Paddy Power's perspective. They run a sportsbook where their players like to play poker. Those players go on the poker site, lose all their money to say someone on Titan Poker and that money is gone from Paddy Power forever. It's not going to be bet on a horse race or played in the casino. I think GaF misses the point a bit. A network provider should be a third-party service provider. It should be making sure the software is solid, providing more functionality and dealing with fraud and collusion. It should not be in the business of recruiting new players. What has happened with all the rakeback offers is sites in networks have simply got into the business of stealing players off each other. These fines are a way of counteracting that. It's no good for any of us if the poker sites are simply trying to recruit the sharks from each other and nobody is bringing the fish into the party. It's a business at the end of the day. For them and for us. And it's short sighted to think we don't all depend on a bit of co-operation to make it work. I'm not defending the fines, or iPoker, I'm just explaining a bit how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players I see that iPoker are going to be classfying all players into one of 6 categories: Big Shark Medium Shark Little Shark Little Fish Medium fish Big Fish Would I be right in assuming that under the Data Protection Act, they would have to tell us which category each of us is stored in if we asked (and paid)? :lol :lol :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players How many skins does iPoker have? I guess they see me as 20 fishes since I never had problems with any skin from iPoker :loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: iPoker and winning players How many skins does iPoker have? :loon 1917Poker.combet365.comBetboo.comBetFold.comBetFred.comBetfriends.comBetMostPoker.comBetNGo.comBigSlick.co.ukBlackbeltPoker.comBlondePoker.comBlueSquare.comBoylePoker.comCashIsKingPoker.comCBMbet.comCDPoker.comCelebPoker.comCentrebetPoker.comChiliPoker.comChocolatePoker.comDafaPoker.comDailyStarPoker.comDraculaHoldem.comExpekt.comFairPoker.comGetOffTheRail.comGoldenPalacePoker.comGrandSlamPoker.comGreenJokerPoker.comHansaPoker.comHollandPoker.comjonnytexas.comKenPoker.comLeonPoker.comMansionPoker.comMyBet.comNoblePoker.comNutsPoker.comOffsideBet.comOneWayPoker.comPaddyPowerPoker.comParimatch.comPoker770.comPokerDucks.comPokerHuis.comPokerInEurope.comPokerOcean.comPokerPlex.comRedQueenPoker.comRedSkyPoker.comSegaPoker.comSportsInteraction.com (non-US)Stanleycasinos.comSunBetPoker.co.ukSunPoker.comTamTamPoker.comTiger Poker.comTilaPoker.comTitanPoker.comTonyGPoker.comUK-Poker.co.ukUncoverPoker.comUniversityPokerLeague.comVCPoker,comVikingBetPoker.comVulcanPoker.comWilliamHillPoker.comWindowsCasino.comXLBet.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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