slapdash Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I just noticed these on Full Tilt. Interesting, but if I understand correctly how it works, it looks as though if you cash out before the final table, you only get about half the value of the chips you cash out, so it doesn't look as though it's often, if ever, going to be correct to do so. :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt I just noticed these on Full Tilt. Interesting, but if I understand correctly how it works, it looks as though if you cash out before the final table, you only get about half the value of the chips you cash out, so it doesn't look as though it's often, if ever, going to be correct to do so. :unsure What if you're on the FT and you are the chipleader with 60% of all the chips in the tournament? Maybe then it would be good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt What if you're on the FT and you are the chipleader with 60% of all the chips in the tournament? Maybe then it would be good? When it gets to the final table, the "cashout period" ends, and everybody on the FT gets the cashout value of their chips (without losing them) ... I think. And then it continues as a normal FT. It might be worth checking one of these out just before the FT. If there are players cashing out, I think that adds value for the players who don't. My first thoughts are that the correct strategy is: (a) Don't cash out. (b) When it gets close to the FT, play a bit more for chip accumulation and less for survival than you would in a normal tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avongirl Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt One of these in the FTOPS schedule, towards the end I think if I remember correctly from doing the diary entries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt I watched the later stages of one of these yesterday ($10 buy-in 6-max). By the final table, just over half the chips had been cashed out. If that's typical then it looks to me as though there's some significant added value for players who don't cash out. On the final table bubble, there were four big stacks and three very short stacks. The short stacks were all at one table together with one of the big stacks, who proceeded to cash out about half his chips! I can only assume he didn't really get how it worked, and it's possible that the high level of cash-outs is just a temporary phase while there are a lot of players who don't understand the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt I'm watching the last two tables of a $2 (9-seater) one now. With 16 left, about 20% of the chips have been cashed out. Nobody's done any cashing out since I started watching, but I'll be interested to see what happens closer to the final table bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt A medium stack cashed out completely to finish in 15th. 31% gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt And it got to the FT with no more cash-outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt 38% cashed out in a $10 one before the FT. One player who was doing rather well kept cashing out a bit every time he won a decent pot, but when he got to the FT and got the cashout for his remaining chips, he seemed to twig. I think he thought he had to take the cashout before the FT or he'd lose it. So it's probably true that the significant added value will only last until the players figure out how it works. I'd better play one soon. :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt I havent fully managed to get my head around these (from the description on FT) :$ Are you still of your original opinion that it's never right to cash out and that a lot of players are and are dumping ev because of it? It kinda makes sense - those that cash out before getting ITM are basically only playing for half the prize pool. Those that cash out ITM are getting half the prize pool plus a fraction of their proper value from the other half ... but I've not got my head around it enough to be confident that that is what is really happening..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugleh Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt Yes I am of the same opinion as you two. Also did read a thread on 2+2 in the MTTc forum where people seem to have the same understanding. Should never be +EV to cashout since you are giving up on the final table prizepool. There might be some extreme situations where it's correct to cash out, for example when you have a microstack. If everyone plays correctly and does not cash out, I think this means that the prizepool will be a lot top heavier: more cash for the FT. Also, the biggest stack(s) can abuse the FT bubble massively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt Are you still of your original opinion that it's never right to cash out and that a lot of players are and are dumping ev because of it? Pretty much. Obviously one good reason to cash out would be that something came up that meant you had something better to do than continuing with the tournament. If you're a shortish stack close to the final table, there's some argument for cashing out to reduce variance, though I suspect you're always giving up too much EV. If you're a big stack close to the final table, there's no good reason to cash out (although some people do), as you'll get the cashout money anyway when you make the FT, and you'll keep your chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt If everyone plays correctly and does not cash out, I think this means that the prizepool will be a lot top heavier: more cash for the FT. Agreed. Also, the biggest stack(s) can abuse the FT bubble massively. Not sure. It may be that this is true in practice, but theoretically I don't think that it's correct for the short stacks to let themselves be bullied more than normal. Compared to a normal FT bubble, prize money EV is closer to chip EV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
step1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt :lol:lol slapdash said: Obviously one good reason to cash out would be that something came up that meant you had something better to do than continuing with the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt There's a $10 one starting in 25 minutes. I'm going to give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt I got knocked out well before the money in the $10 one. There's a $2 one starting in ten minutes, which I'll try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Cashout tournaments on Full Tilt 20 minutes in, and somebody has decided to cash out $0.14. :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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