Need some advice!

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! You'll know their range from their position, style, game flow, stack size, their line, your line, your image etc.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Can any of you full ring guys tell me some good pre flop strategy, like earlier i 3bet folded AKo because i was like wtf this guy 4bet first time i 3bet him. Do you guys tend to stack off pre with AK and JJ? And how aggressively do people play draws post flop? For example if there's 2 to a flush and a couple of straight draws and there's big re-raising going on is it most likely villains will have sets/2pairs then combo draws? Thanks.

[dico]

Re: Need some advice!

Can any of you full ring guys tell me some good pre flop strategy, like earlier i 3bet folded AKo because i was like wtf this guy 4bet first time i 3bet him. Thanks.

what were the stack sizes?

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! 100bbs @ 200nl. FWIW it's usually not right to stack off pre with AK at 6max any more so just wondering what its like at full ring.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! I just did a filter on HEM to see if my thoughts about AK were right and over the last 6months i've got in AK pre 130 odd times for +$25 and slightly above EV, but in total with AK i'm up $8.8k in that time. So it's probably still fine to felt AK at 6max pre but not sure what that should mean in general terms at full ring but it seems i'm really good with it post flop..

[glceud]

Re: Need some advice!

I just did a filter on HEM to see if my thoughts about AK were right and over the last 6months i've got in AK pre 130 odd times for +$25 and slightly above EV, but in total with AK i'm up $8.8k in that time. So it's probably still fine to felt AK at 6max pre but not sure what that should mean in general terms at full ring but it seems i'm really good with it post flop..

Think you've answered your own question there. At full ring unless the other guys a complete tilt case I would'nt get pot commited(for a stack) preflop with anything other than aces.

[averick]

Re: Need some advice!

Can any of you full ring guys tell me some good pre flop strategy, like earlier i 3bet folded AKo because i was like wtf this guy 4bet first time i 3bet him. Do you guys tend to stack off pre with AK and JJ? And how aggressively do people play draws post flop? For example if there's 2 to a flush and a couple of straight draws and there's big re-raising going on is it most likely villains will have sets/2pairs then combo draws? Thanks.

I almost rarely see people stacking off with AKo but its much more common with AKs. JJ against a short stack (

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Thanks guys that's helped me a lot :ok Yesterday i decided to play 200nl FR on the basis of the play being softer at FR than 6max so moving up i can make more, i made a buy-in in a few hundred hands and it was soft but had a bit more think about it and think i should play a few thousand hands at 100nl FR first to just make sure i'm used to how people play certain hands differently at full ring to 6max (as eluded to in my Qs earlier). But yeh i'll deffinitely feel more comfortable i think playing 200nl FR than 200nl 6max. Now played over 7k hands without a HUD the last few days and found it's just as straightforward putting people on the right hands.

[averick]

Re: Need some advice! Cheers Nade, that seems to be a good idea, looking at your heater makes me envious! Anyway I think you'll get at least 3-4bb/100 at nl100 with yr skill level, do you still play the same number of tables without a HUD? Have you played a decent volume on Stars before? Wanted to get some opinion on the comparison of skill levels between the two sites.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Yeh i'm playing the same amount of tables as before which is up to 8/9, i just dropped a couple of buy-ins in a session though but learnt a lot, specifically that full ring players compared to 6max just don't hand read or are terrible at it for some reason so they seem to do really weird stuff like commit themselves in bad situations or just play huge hands really passively - that's all a bit confusing for me at the moment - i don't know whether to have a high VPIP to try and get more value or play 10% of hands and print money. Have never really played cash on stars but i know they haven't raised their min buy-in so i imagine their tables are hugely shortstack infested, but theey do have some 50bb min tables.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! I'm still amazed at the difference in full ring to 6max players - full ring guys just do not have a move in their locker, every time they c/r or re-raise in a marginal situation it's not like they are thinking deeply into it like i have an equity edge by re-raising a pair and draw vs their range - they're re-raising and c/r every time i've seen with the nuts. They don't hand read well which leads to them giving awesome odds on combo draws (which i've bricked out on 9.9/10 times the last 2 days :wall) if i could start hitting some shit when they obviously have aces then it's easy game, but running pretty bad right now. To all the regs on there i must look like some huge spew monkey as i'm the only one there who re-raises or shoves without the nuts (only bad for me when they have the nuts ofc) and then they're like wtf is this guy doing 3 barrelling without the nuts like its a move from a martian planet. Not to mention all the 4bet folding i've seen going on - putting a third of their stack in then folding pre flop. full ring is light years behind 6 max play it really is. If i can adjust in the right places to avoid running into the nuts then i'm quite confident.

[Villagio]

Re: Need some advice! Hmmm might have to make the move to FR myself in this case. Haven't played it for ages (donkaments aside), but I'm done with the swings at 6max/HU for a while. A change might do my game (and roll) some good. As you say though full of shortstacker VPP/rakeback pros.

[averick]

Re: Need some advice! Darn it Nade you just had to expose why I can be a decent winner at FR:$ FR tends to be tighter because its dynamics means that it pays off to be more selective preflop, and I think this carries over into postflop play. You're playing this on FT right? I don't really see how you're running bad, and you're crushing it. I would take coaching from you if you offered it anytime lol. Regarding the shortstackers I only spent 2 sessions on those non-deepstack tables before getting sick and tired of spending 30% of my hands calling a shortstacker's 3bet shove preflop as my style of play requires alot more room to maneuver.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Full ring is putting me on ******* life tilt, literally 9/10 times i have KK in any sized reraise pot an A has flopped, any time any of these ******* nits even thinks about betting more than 1 street it doesnt matter if you have the 2nd ******* nuts which is so ******* rare in itself cus i can't even hit 1 ******* pair no matter a big hand these fuckers have the nuts if they bet more then 1 street but u cant bluff them off cus if they dont have the nuts theyre too busy c/c 2 streets with overpairs QQ+ jesus ******* christ if i got half the big hands and situations these ***** get its printing money but they have no ******* clue the amount of useless ***** making 2+BB according to PTR there must be an infinite amount of fish out there cus they play so ******* bad jesus f christ im so tilted with theses nits i have to play a thousand hands a second to even hit 1 pair while these fuckers play 1 hand an hour and flop the ******* nuts at will and ******* idiots pay them off like they're not gonna have it but of course they do and ***** pay them off so they continue to play 5% of hands and print money cus they always flop the ******* nuts must be ******* nice **** sakes. one hand that sticks out he plays 1 ******* hand in an hour cbet flops 4JJ 2 callers, turn comes an A he checks lololoo then bets 1/3 pot river some fucker calls obv he has 44 lol whats that 2 tiny bets by a shitty reg when he flops the nuts into 2 ppl jesus f christ i want to throw the f computer through the window the situations these guys get and they make tons according to PTR. i'm winning at 1.5ptBB playing FR this week and i can barely hit a pair or draw to save my life, when i do start to hit some f hands vs these nitty faggots who are checking down AA all day long then im gonna rip this shit up omg im so tilted.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Averick can you help me out in understanding the mindset of most of these regs - they seem to have sucked the soul out of poker and that's pretty sad tbh. Their form of poker is wait for the nuts, trap trap trap, try not to get coolered themselves, never build a pot bigger than 30bbs without AA preflop or the nuts post flop. I haven't personally paid many of these guys off but as i'm not using a HUD i'm constantly paying attention to the showdowns and after all it's pretty obvious when they have a big hand, i've checked down QQ v AA twice post flop (yes they LOVE to check down AA) but it's seriously driving me crazy to see how they're playing huge hands, they're winning pots (as they have big hands ldo) but they're virtually setting money alight and it hurts my soul to see how they're trying to turn a psychological game that is poker into a computer game of i'll cooler you more then you cooler me. An example of one of these life nits: i have QQ, i get 3bet by a nit in the SB i call, flop comes 3 hearts K high, i don't have a heart, we check all 3 streets. They turn over AhAx. lol ... :wall

[averick]

Re: Need some advice! Was surprised by that tilt because I thought that your ability to handle variance was better than mine, but if this helps to cool you down then maybe I should try that in future too:lol I've read that the play on FT is tighter compared to most sites, and your post seems to confirm this. I can help you based on my experience with the FR regs at Stars, though the playing style you describe is simply that of a nitty TAG, which I don't bother about most of the time. Many of these nit regs are 12-24 tabling to hit SNE as soon as possible so they do not have the time to critically analyse every postflop situation they're in, and since they have decided that being a FPP pro outweighs the benefits from playing their A game on a smaller number of tables, their strategy is to play ABC poker as that is good enough to obtain a decent win/loss rate at nl100 (they're tons of fish out there anyway), which is propped up by the huge benefits from attaining SNE status. So they're simply trying to find the cheapest and fastest way to attain the benefits of being a SNE. I am not familiar with the VIP program on FT but I assume my explanation should hold for the FT network too. So what I normally do is to just sit on their right and steal their blinds until they adjust (which almost never happens), and not try any fancy moves against them. You can say that they have changed the way online poker is played but in my opinion it is a win-win situation as they are happy with playing ABC poker and pushing for SNE status, while they do not give me too many problems as their creativity is limited. You mentioned that you haven't paid them off to much so that's good, I believe you should be focusing on players that will give you more problems (i.e. better regs) and maximising value from the fish (which you said was your playing style at 6max). Once you adjust to the playing styles at FR you should be crushing it in no time and be moving up to nl200 soon:ok

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Great post thanks :notworthy Having watched a couple of full ring vids over the last day and reading your post i now know that these uber nits are standard, i genuinely had no idea people a) played that tight and b) it's accepted as normal. Balugawhale in the DC vid i've watched on full ring comes up with a couple of interesting ways to think about situations but in the main i'm already doing all the stuff he recommends in the vid - his basic premise is you can play more hands than the nits if you don't pay them off and you're good at getting value. Though one point he made that i disagree with was that there was more value in calling an open raise on the BTN with KK than 3betting because vs an opponent opening in MP they're going to get it in with QQ+ but i think that post flop they won't be building a big pot unless they have 1 pair beat so i think getting it in pre is much better myself but that point wasn't made in the vid by his mentor so they moved on. Played over 15k hands this week pretty much all normal full ring winning at 1.7ptBB (3.45bb) it would be have been 2ptBB but for losing with KK v QQ on the last hand of last session which was a funny hand as they played it like aces by min 3betting in UTG+1, I 4bet they called, flop J high i bet half pot then insta ship it i insta call then Q on river. FWIW my PTR tilt score is now 72 ;) up from 70 :lol Thanks for your confidence in me, there's a couple of things i need to experiment with like squeezing more but in the main my FR game seems really good, probably because my natural game is more suited to FR than the levelling war that can be 6max at times.. :ok

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Dilemma I'm now stuck in such a huge dilemma after running really bad so far this month at full ring. The problem is the players at full ring are a thousand times worse than 6max but if they're only playing the top 10% of hands it doesn't matter how bad they are premium hands are just tough to beat in poker. I'm finding full ring way swingier than 6max, it's constantly cooler a few people win a few hundred get coolered or sucked out on lose a few hundred rinse and repeat, there's no poker being played out there, there's no subtleness to it. The dilemma is i could sit there all day like most of those nits playing 10% of hands and print money but want to kill kittens out of boredom. Or play with a tougher player pool at 6max but feel like some poker is actually being played and dynamics created. If i was building a bankroll full ring is the easiest place to grind and do it, but now i'm past that and really my head is saying stay at full ring you'll stop running like satan and start printing money but my heart is saying go and play some proper poker. I could seriously write a dossier on everything that tilts me about full ring players, they're bad, but after running 6BI below EV in 2days i don't feel confident i can beat them which is obviously crazy but i dunno my head is mangled atm. Rant When i close my eyes i see flashbacks of trying to rep flushes and getting called by sets, getting set over set constantly, constantly vbetting 2streets with top pair A with Q vs AK, never winning a race, or hit a draw but when i do they have the higher draw ldo and constantly seeing people just call with the 2nd nuts on the river vs me cus i don't think they've ever seen someone raise the river without the nuts, when i'm trying to get value with 2 pair lolol like that's ever possible. I'm still trying to work out the dynamic that created this form of poker where people are scared of raising the turn or river with anything but the nuts. Scary thought.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! With more thought one of my major problems playing full ring is i get so frustrated at the tables as i see people miss-play hands and situations literally every minute of the session and i think if only i had their hand in that situation i could have made infinitely more or easily got away etc. Things i barely ever say or think when playing 6max, the players barely make mistakes at 6max but i find it a lot easier to play than full ring maybe because i'm not used to the insanely nitty dynamics that mean playing in ways that make no logical sense to me or maybe that's results orientated thinking. I'd really like to give full ring another couple of weeks but another worry i have is the more i play the worse i'll become at poker and the more robotic i'll become like the rest of the nits there - that's a genuinely scary thought. Edit: Actually the happy medium might be to play HU, the players are bad and you get to actually play post flop poker. That's my next crusade i think :lol :ok Edit 2: Just made 4buy-ins in 100 hands playing HU 100nl. Opponent was not bad, but by his comments totally over-rated himself and under-rated me, mostly having a go at me saying i bet a lot of hands when i should be checking (lol it's called value town baby).

[Woodie]

Re: Need some advice! How many tables are you playing bro? If you playing full ring just add loads of tables and it's hard to get bord. I do agree though with the comments on how tight full ring players play it's beyond joke. I've never really played with you but you seem to do well at 6max judging by your results on here. Why not just keep playing there? at least your playing good poker and getting yourself in really interesting spots and by this way improve as a player. All full ring does is nit you up.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! I was tending to play up to 10 tables. Changed to full ring after rush enticed me in and i saw how generally bad the players are and with no shortstackers the games are really juicy but its still a frustrating game. Going to play more HU today and maybe 6max, staying away from full ring for the time ;)

[averick]

Re: Need some advice!

his basic premise is you can play more hands than the nits if you don't pay them off and you're good at getting value.

I used to be able to do this pretty well but my W$SD% has been poor the pass few sessions; I have to stop underestimating most unknowns.

Though one point he made that i disagree with was that there was more value in calling an open raise on the BTN with KK than 3betting because vs an opponent opening in MP they're going to get it in with QQ+ but i think that post flop they won't be building a big pot unless they have 1 pair beat so i think getting it in pre is much better myself but that point wasn't made in the vid by his mentor so they moved on.

I think this is very opponent dependent but I generally disagree, especially when you have a loose image.

FWIW my PTR tilt score is now 72 ;) up from 70 :lol

Saw this on yr tracking page and thought it was your HOT score for a moment!

Dilemma I'm now stuck in such a huge dilemma after running really bad so far this month at full ring. The problem is the players at full ring are a thousand times worse than 6max but if they're only playing the top 10% of hands it doesn't matter how bad they are premium hands are just tough to beat in poker. I'm finding full ring way swingier than 6max, it's constantly cooler a few people win a few hundred get coolered or sucked out on lose a few hundred rinse and repeat, there's no poker being played out there, there's no subtleness to it. The dilemma is i could sit there all day like most of those nits playing 10% of hands and print money but want to kill kittens out of boredom. Or play with a tougher player pool at 6max but feel like some poker is actually being played and dynamics created. If i was building a bankroll full ring is the easiest place to grind and do it, but now i'm past that and really my head is saying stay at full ring you'll stop running like satan and start printing money but my heart is saying go and play some proper poker. I could seriously write a dossier on everything that tilts me about full ring players, they're bad, but after running 6BI below EV in 2days i don't feel confident i can beat them which is obviously crazy but i dunno my head is mangled atm.

I had all these going through my mind when I went on a 10 BI downswing last month, but you just have to keep a cool head and play on. It's extremely hard to do that when your AA gets rivered by KQ blah blah blah so I Just prefer to take a break. Tbh I think your 6 max game is pretty solid so if you bring it over the FR your style of play pretty much crushes them. But if FR makes you bored then you should go back to 6-max, unless FR is giving you much more profit.. then you have a decision to make.

Rant When i close my eyes i see flashbacks of trying to rep flushes and getting called by sets

This is generally a bad idea unless there's a four to a flush on the board, from what I've observed people hardly let go of sets.

With more thought one of my major problems playing full ring is i get so frustrated at the tables as i see people miss-play hands and situations literally every minute of the session and i think if only i had their hand in that situation i could have made infinitely more or easily got away etc.

I don't really get affected by this, I just take notes on how they play certani hands and use it against them later on if I don't think they're too tricky.

Edit 2: Just made 4buy-ins in 100 hands playing HU 100nl. Opponent was not bad, but by his comments totally over-rated himself and under-rated me, mostly having a go at me saying i bet a lot of hands when i should be checking (lol it's called value town baby).

HU is always going to be much more swingier but if you are able to adapt and play your opponent well then I think HU/ 6-max is always the way to go:ok Think I still have some way to go before I can play 6-max, but for now I'm just focusing on increasing my winrate at FR nl100.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Appreciate your comments didn't think anyone would be fussed reading all my BS (and i don't blame them) :lol :) I've gone back to 6max the last day and a bit and i just realised how damn much i love that game :eek i just want to play it 24/7 now after going through the tedium of full ring :lol. HU is fine but the waiting around is pretty dull and when i tried to play regs they quickly quit/sat out and as you say the swings i expect will be dramatic. Re. PTR i don't know what they're playing at but according to that i lost $300 yesterday when in fact i made $50, i've noticed that happening a few times the last few weeks when they're a few hundo out from what it should be which is kind of annoying because everyone likes a pretty graph :D. For your poker development i'd recommend going over to 6max or at least doing it in the future, but if you have FR crushed and just know that game inside out and also enjoy it then you may as well stay playing that. If you want go move over to 6max at some point it would be best doing it gradually with 1 or 2 tables at first etc. and i can help if you have any queries and stuff :ok

[glceud]

Re: Need some advice!

Appreciate your comments didn't think anyone would be fussed reading all my BS (and i don't blame them) :lol :)

Even if it was all BS(which it is'nt), it's awfully well written BS and well worth a read.

[averick]

Re: Need some advice! Np Nade as glceud said there's always something useful, especially as many probably thought the same way as you at one point or another in their poker career. I think it all boils down to your current poker goal and how you want to achieve it. For me the current aim is to maximize profits and get to Supernova asap so FR fulfills these criteria, mainly because of my style of play. I got raped at 6max previously (though it was at nl200 and nl400) so I won't be going back there for awhile. Yup I generally believe that 6max players are fundamentally stronger and more adaptive than their FR counterparts at the same limits so ideally I would want to move over there (but at a higher limit). With my school starting in August I don't think setting such a goal would be realistic in the short term so my current goal is to improve my winrate at FR nl100 (currently 1.95bb/100) and increase my multitabling abilities (I find 7 tables very busy already, I almost have no time to do anything other than clicking buttons!)

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Just funny looking back on this thread, i sway between reasoned posting and ranting as usual :lol Anyway i'm glad i logged a lot of my full ring experiences in this thread as i'm going to have a crack at some more full ring to try and earn some consistent money. It just isn't happening at 6max those games have been terrible for a few months as shown by nearly all past winning regs i look at have been breakeven/losing for the last few months. No matter what i do or try ultimately it just isn't happening consistently for me either, profits that is!. Think i'm in a really good position right now to grind full ring as i'm not tilting easily, i've been grinding the slowest paced games on the internet (PKR) so have had to be uber patient and have grinded 6max rush which requires tons of patience too and is similar to full ring in the stacking off ranges i think. So going to take a lot of mental notes from this thread and get cracking with a head-start on last time.

[averick]

Re: Need some advice! Thanks for reminding me that this thread still exists lol. I myself went through the thread, looked at the hands I posted, and I've seen that I've come quite a long way since then. At least, thats what I think. Gl with the FR I'll be happy to give some advice if I can; anyway do get on msn more often, haven't seen you around in abit.

[Nade]

Re: Need some advice! Yeh haven't been on msn in a long time just haven't wanted to talk to poker players tbh. Deja Vu. Played a few k hands over the last day and remember why i quit FR the last time around - it's mind numbingly awfully boring playing vs AT+ every hand. I don't think FR is poker. Feel exactly the same as i did a few months ago, could quote my posts and that sums it up. Had enough of playing zombies.