What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

[bowles10]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? We all have to deal with big Ego's on here & this thread is again about debate etc It is not about "ive got a bigger one than you etc" So, lets keep it to that guys :ok

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

We all have to deal with big Ego's on here & this thread is again about debate etc It is not about "ive got a bigger one than you etc" So, lets keep it to that guys :ok

I agree but not guilty here. I had to respond to that rubbish surely?

[bowles10]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

I agree but not guilty here. I had to respond to that rubbish surely?

Not saying you were guilty mate, but the debate was heading down a path.....which led to.... do i need to go on! I remember those posts Billy & i remember that you own the horse that won Brighton's richest race :lol in the Summer No one on here is bothered about how much people have on the nose, for all you know, some of us could be 10p punters! It doesnt matter at all does it, as i said in a previous post, its about % yield profit

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

Not saying you were guilty mate, but the debate was heading down a path.....which led to.... do i need to go on! I remember those posts Billy & i remember that you own the horse that won Brighton's richest race :lol in the Summer No one on here is bothered about how much people have on the nose, for all you know, some of us could be 10p punters! It doesnt matter at all does it, as i said in a previous post, its about % yield profit

Of course amounts are irrelevant, however upping and lowering stakes the right time, does have an effect on your ROI. That's what I was trying to explain, in no way trying to be flash or suggest that more is better. :ok

[bowles10]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

Of course amounts are irrelevant' date=' however upping and lowering stakes the right time, [i']does have an effect on your ROI. That's what I was trying to explain, in no way trying to be flash or suggest that more is better. :ok

agreed & this is exactly where i need help with mine at the moment the plan for me is to wait for the day for certain horses, you know, its the race they have targeted (with any luck), & then its all systems go. I am tempted to go to 3 times my normal largest stake on these horses. The problem is that some of these will be at Royal Ascot etc. The 1st one is likely to be on Derby day, not the big one but a handicap race on that card where a horse i have followed is being primed for the race. It will depend on the final day due to the draw, however what you seem to be saying is that this is a good policy to have as long as you can handle the loss if it doesnt win.

[Tedthewolf]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

What a cracking little thread this is turning out to be.

:rollin :rollin :rollin ffs Fin thats a cracker

[fintron]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Billy, if you don't mind me asking, do you have a staking plan in real-life similar to that which you use on the line, where your bets are varied from 1-3 pts depending on strength of the fancy, or do you just have a 'feel' for how much can be backed on each, and vary stakes widely? Staking is my biggest downfall. The contrasting fortunes of Fancy Footsteps and Our Luck Will Come the prime examples. Had 20 X more on the loser. :$

[fintron]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

:rollin :rollin :rollin ffs Fin thats a cracker

The picture inspiration came from the colourful, yet departed, TC. I hope he returns at some point, if adhering to the rules of course.

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

agreed & this is exactly where i need help with mine at the moment the plan for me is to wait for the day for certain horses, you know, its the race they have targeted (with any luck), & then its all systems go. I am tempted to go to 3 times my normal largest stake on these horses. The problem is that some of these will be at Royal Ascot etc. The 1st one is likely to be on Derby day, not the big one but a handicap race on that card where a horse i have followed is being primed for the race. It will depend on the final day due to the draw, however what you seem to be saying is that this is a good policy to have as long as you can handle the loss if it doesnt win.

Yes absolutely. I think 3x a normal bet is about right for a MAX bet. It makes sense to vary stakes, after all confidence varies.

[Tedthewolf]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

The picture inspiration came from the colourful' date=' yet departed, TC. I hope he returns at some point, if adhering to the rules of course.[/quote'] Yeah me too. Others have done worse and returned to the forum:ok....maybe he will come back as Benny The Ball

[bowles10]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

Yeah me too. Others have done worse and returned to the forum:ok....maybe he will come back as Benny The Ball

#he wont, he got enough warnings & some sound advice from many mods but refused to take it so thats it........archived for good.

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

Billy, if you don't mind me asking, do you have a staking plan in real-life similar to that which you use on the line, where your bets are varied from 1-3 pts depending on strength of the fancy, or do you just have a 'feel' for how much can be backed on each, and vary stakes widely? Staking is my biggest downfall. The contrasting fortunes of Fancy Footsteps and Our Luck Will Come the prime examples. Had 20 X more on the loser. :$

Yes it's almost identical to how I stake the line. In real life, 95% of the time my bets are on a 1-3pt basis (as the line), although my min bet is actually 1/4pt - but that usually part of a bigger bet (ie 1pt stake on the race) The other 5% of the time will be smaller than 1/4pt or bigger than 3pts. The biggest would probably be equivilant to 5pts. If that makes sense. One bet being 20x another is too big a difference.

[bowles10]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

The biggest would probably be equivilant to 5pts. If that makes sense.

so 5pts bet is 66% higher than a 3pt bet i.e 3pt bet is 100, 5pt bet would be 166? is this what you are saying

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

so 5pts bet is 66% higher than a 3pt bet i.e 3pt bet is 100, 5pt bet would be 166? is this what you are saying

Yeah something like that I suppose. My average bet is under 1.5pts btw.

[mowgli77]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? If I had the time I'd be watching every race every day and betting a lot more often, handicaps, maidens and listed and above (hate sellers, claimers, class 6 and 7 shite) but as it is I don't have the time so have to try find certain races to concentrate on and therefore limit my bets and opportunities. I've just recorded the full 3 day Dante meeting from York that I was at and will be taking a lot of horses to follow up from that meeting.

[Lars]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Some good insight here, well apart from the bit of WWE style in ring "disagreement". I was expecting Stone Cold to come down in a beer truck and start giving out cans of some sh*te American lager! One question Billy if you don't mind me asking, is how much time per day you spend looking at the form etc? I mean I know you're a pro punter and all that, but that would imply 8-10 hours per day, would you say that being a pro punter was putting in less, the same (about) or a lot more hours than the average layman works 9am-5/6pm? I'm pretty sure that you've answered this one a lot, probably even in this thread :$. Cheers :ok

[luckyblogger]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? A very interesting thread and i could not resist replying.. I do refer to the forum for my daily picks and i thought will share with you my betting perspective.. I set aside £100 a month for my racing bets and try to grow it by betting on most races over the weekend. If i win i set aside a portion of my winnings for big events. For grand national, i grew my 100 to 300 and put it on K. Blade, Rambling Minster and Comply or Die (e/w).. If you can remember it was not very profitable Next was 2000 guineas and this time i was lucky... I had turned by 100 into 350 which i had put on Sea the Stars (£100) and some other horses that did not win. Got £1100 back and was able to book some profits.. Now i am building my pot for Ascot. I know this is not the best strategy but I enjoy the buildup and the excitement of the big races. To bet more or less is difficult. I have seen people on betfair forums who bet on every race. I prefer betting on those races where i am confident based on my understanding and tips from fellow punters. A great thread and good luck to all who plan on doing this for living. Cheers Lucky

[Gingertipster]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Billy, I have enjoyed our discussions. I suppose I have been guilty of concentrating on the things we disagree on more than stuff we do agree. May be that is why you feel I have something against you. Perhaps some on here take everything you say as gospel, think some are scared to question, because they know you are very knowledgeable. We all know that Billy. But I question everything I see, whoever it is, particularly people who I respect. However, It seems to me some of your posts these days look very similar to adverts I have received through the post for tipping lines. Just on this thread: “I ensure overall profit”. “I am extremely confident I'd be correct enough to ensure a profit”. “I'd go as far to say it would be close to 100%”. “There is no way I will lose over a course of a year, well it's close to impossible”. “I am aiming high regarding ROI for 2009”, (I.e. Higher than 10%). No ego there then. It is (IMO) just UNREALISTIC. Both Alan Potts and Dave Nevison have said they made a loss last year (or certainly for a large part of it). Yet you are close to 100% sure of profit this year? Then there is the thread that despite it including 208 races, was some how not retrospective of your betting / profit. As I said, I can accept that you had a better year than the thread would imply Billy. May be even as much as 10% profit (not 6%), but not significantly more. There were all those winning bets that were not on your thread. I would guess that these bets were counterbalanced by a lot of losers as well. You Infer that punters like Alan Potts are a dying breed and Steve Mellish isn't a real pro gambler. Yet when I dare to question you Billy, you say I have got a problem with you. I believe; didn't I vote for you in the Oscars? Think it was between you and Fintron, certainly made some complimentary comments. Strange problem I've got. My quip about being careful was a joke Billy, sorry for any confusion. Tried to make that clear with all the smileys. On PL, there are from what I have read, only three people that I believe have what it takes to be a pro gambler; you, Russ and.... well I think you can guess the other one. That is not to say there are some others who have potential to do so, particularly Fintron. Please allow me to disagree with some of what you say Billy, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. Before this thread Billy, I was 100% convinced you were a successful professional gambler. Sadly, I now (with the claims on this thread which I think are unbelievable) have some doubts about that. Ginge

[Fatz]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Became intrigued by this 'trading' lark and after much agoinsing decided to put my normal betting on the back burner for one year and give it a serious go. Very much a novice in this sphere but despite my ineptitude somehow managing to show a profit. However I'm far from happy with my performance and to put this into context if I compare my actual market entry points to Betfair SP as opposed to my actual exit points the profit would have been over 50% more. Not sure if that will make any sense to y'all but it basically means that I'm a half-wit, panicking when the market moves against me and failing to capitalise fully when it moves in my favour. Therefore my short-term ambition is to master my emotions and become a better trader.

[BillyHills]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Ginge/Bill Personally dont think its very professional by either of you to carry out your personal differences in public. There are other ways. This was a good thread started by Russ and once again has drifted off into something else. Great entertainment on a quiet night but where does it end? Ginge, must say you shouldnt discredit a fellow member with accusations about his claims, especially when he makes a living out of it. Myself being a professional in a different field, Its like saying i'm a crap photographer and posting it on a 'photo site', its not fair and uncalled for in my opinion without facts. You can call me a crap tipster all you like it wont cost me anything, and you'd probably be right. Just dont agree with it mate. In your own thread the last post you stated you backed something in real life but didnt put it on the forum, you said a real profit is better than a written one or soemthing, is that any different to what BTP stated and you picked him up on? Lets face it, you are just different people that have different views, whether any one on the forum believes you is irrelevant, I could sign up under a new account tomorrow and claim all sorts. I think we are intelligent enough to know what we read, I have questioned Bill on many things and yourself as you know and I dont think people are scared at all. You are both valued members of the forum but this soap opera is doing no-one any favours. Lets move on and hit them bookies!

[stewartd14]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Lets be honest guys. Russ stated earlier in the thread about ego's. Most pro gamblers have ego's to be honest, its the same as poker players, just to a lesser extent. It is my firm belief that to be a pro gambler, you have to be slightly hard nosed and thick skinned to deal with what the game throws at you, so it does not surprise me that it is the two "pro gamblers" on here that squabble about each others profits more frequently than they really should. IMO, its to be expected. Battle's of ego's never seem to end, so lets try and focus on what we agree on as well as what we disagree on please guys. :ok Very interesting thread though, and some heated discussion is not a bad things, lets just keep it to a minimum now as its beginning to ruin the thread.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Guys, If you feel the need to respond to everyone who challenges you in life, then you're in for a battle most of your life. Know who you are and what you are, what others say is completely irrelevant. Hold the moral high ground. For the record, I'm not saying who I think was wrong or right, as it doesn't matter, but chill - we have only one enemy guys. As for TC........ The guy is a first class clown. I'm as down to earth as they come and deal with everyone on here fairly, but firmly. If you had seen some of the PM's from him, you'd swear the guy is a nutjob. I will not allow people like that to upset the forum, and he was doing just that. TC is a total attention seeker, and they always spell trouble.

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

Billy, I have enjoyed our discussions. I suppose I have been guilty of concentrating on the things we disagree on more than stuff we do agree. May be that is why you feel I have something against you. Perhaps some on here take everything you say as gospel, think some are scared to question, because they know you are very knowledgeable. We all know that Billy. But I question everything I see, whoever it is, particularly people who I respect. However, It seems to me some of your posts these days look very similar to adverts I have received through the post for tipping lines. Just on this thread: “I ensure overall profit”. “I am extremely confident I'd be correct enough to ensure a profit”. “I'd go as far to say it would be close to 100%”. “There is no way I will lose over a course of a year, well it's close to impossible”. “I am aiming high regarding ROI for 2009”, (I.e. Higher than 10%). No ego there then. It is (IMO) just UNREALISTIC. Both Alan Potts and Dave Nevison have said they made a loss last year (or certainly for a large part of it). Yet you are close to 100% sure of profit this year? Then there is the thread that despite it including 208 races, was some how not retrospective of your betting / profit. As I said, I can accept that you had a better year than the thread would imply Billy. May be even as much as 10% profit (not 6%), but not significantly more. There were all those winning bets that were not on your thread. I would guess that these bets were counterbalanced by a lot of losers as well. You Infer that punters like Alan Potts are a dying breed and Steve Mellish isn't a real pro gambler. Yet when I dare to question you Billy, you say I have got a problem with you. I believe; didn't I vote for you in the Oscars? Think it was between you and Fintron, certainly made some complimentary comments. Strange problem I've got. My quip about being careful was a joke Billy, sorry for any confusion. Tried to make that clear with all the smileys. On PL, there are from what I have read, only three people that I believe have what it takes to be a pro gambler; you, Russ and.... well I think you can guess the other one. That is not to say there are some others who have potential to do so, particularly Fintron. Please allow me to disagree with some of what you say Billy, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. Before this thread Billy, I was 100% convinced you were a successful professional gambler. Sadly, I now (with the claims on this thread which I think are unbelievable) have some doubts about that. Ginge

As my word and possibly my name has been questioned yet again, I feel I must respond.

Just on this thread: “I ensure overall profit”. “I am extremely confident I'd be correct enough to ensure a profit”. “I'd go as far to say it would be close to 100%”. “There is no way I will lose over a course of a year, well it's close to impossible”. “I am aiming high regarding ROI for 2009”, (I.e. Higher than 10%). No ego there then. Both Alan Potts and Dave Nevison have said they made a loss last year (or certainly for a large part of it). Yet you are close to 100% sure of profit this year? It is (IMO) just UNREALISTIC.

Of course it's close to impossible that I will lose over a year. I do this for a living and it's been a long time since I did lose over the course of a year. The last time was when I was young and knew little (in comparison) about the game. What is wrong with aiming high with regards to ROI. Isn't it natural to want to improve? I aim to improve every year, because every year I feel I am getting better - to think any different is alien to me. Besides it's only aiming, you can aim for anything, you cannot slag people for their goals. I do not care a monkey's about Alan Potts or Dave Nevison, I don't care if they are winning, losing or breaking even. The mistake you make is that you believe (due to their name) that they are better than me, and as they are claiming a loss then I am wrong to suggest otherwise. Either of those guys having a losing year in 2008 has NOTHING to do with me and I'm struggling to see why you think it does. Ginge it's unrealistic for you maybe, but there are people in this game who know more and are better than you. You must understand this and learn to deal with it.

Then there is the thread that despite it including 208 races, was some how not retrospective of your betting / profit. As I said, I can accept that you had a better year than the thread would imply Billy. May be even as much as 10% profit (not 6%), but not significantly more. There were all those winning bets that were not on your thread. I would guess that these bets were counterbalanced by a lot of losers as well.

There didn't qualify for the thread, but there were still written up on here! The thread was a specialist thread, concentrating on certain races. I did however continue to tip on daily threads (in less detail). I am saying that the success I had away from my thread resulted in me having a much better year than my thread suggested. For exmple can you not comprehend that I may have had an out of line bet on my own? Given the fact that I know more about them and have studied them intensively over the years? There were of course losers, but a healthy profit was made overall. I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand that I made money away from my thread last season. One look at my 2009 thread suggests that I find winners in all types of races. By the way with regards to my thread, do you still think having a list to follow is a "mugs" game? Maybe it is, if you're a mug.

You Infer that punters like Alan Potts are a dying breed and Steve Mellish isn't a real pro gambler. Yet when I dare to question you Billy, you say I have got a problem with you. I believe; didn't I vote for you in the Oscars? Think it was between you and Fintron, certainly made some complimentary comments. Strange problem I've got.

My quip about being careful was a joke Billy, sorry for any confusion. Tried to make that clear with all the smileys. On PL, there are from what I have read, only three people that I believe have what it takes to be a pro gambler; you, Russ and.... well I think you can guess the other one. That is not to say there are some others who have potential to do so, particularly Fintron. Please allow me to disagree with some of what you say Billy, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me.

I believe you constantly look for opportunities to "score points" in discussions with me, your quest for kudos is something I've learned to put up. The recent one regarding breeding a prime example. Your comments were so inaccurate, and when I proved them as such you moved the goalposts - I'm convinced the need to disagree with me clouds your judgement.

Before this thread Billy, I was 100% convinced you were a successful professional gambler. Sadly, I now (with the claims on this thread which I think are unbelievable) have some doubts about that.

That is 100% fine with me. Your opinion doesn't put food on my table. However I do think it's sad how this thread has turned out. I'm always up for a discussion but I feel this thread however was something more (or less actually) than that. Which is a shame. Finally, my responses in this thread were an act of defence. I felt my name and word were questioned and therefore I felt I should defend it. I'm sure many would've done the same.

[bowles10]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

On PL, there are from what I have read, only three people that I believe have what it takes to be a pro gambler; you, Russ and.... well I think you can guess the other one. That is not to say there are some others who have potential to do so, particularly Fintron.

would be interested to hear what this is based on? Yield, profit, knowledge, please tell? again interested to know to see how i can personally improve the only person who seems to be running a consistent full bet thread is me in my "live" betting book which is every bet i have placed since April 16th. I could turn round & say, actually i had more on that etc or backed the other one instead, but whats the point of that. Again great debate albeit some of it slightly off topic think the ginge & BTP should meet up at the next PL meet!"

[Gingertipster]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

As my word and possibly my name has been questioned yet again, I feel I must respond. What a discussion on one word "ensure" can turn in to Billy, Jes'.:eek Of course it's close to impossible that I will lose over a year. I do this for a living and it's been a long time since I did lose over the course of a year. The last time was when I was young and knew little (in comparison) about the game. Careful, your head won't fit through the door soon.:lol What is wrong with aiming high with regards to ROI. Isn't it natural to want to improve? I aim to improve every year, because every year I feel I am getting better - to think any different is alien to me. Besides it's only aiming, you can aim for anything, you cannot slag people for their goals. Would not call it slagging but if you want to do so: I can if their goals are unrealistic. I do not care a monkey's about Alan Potts or Dave Nevison, I don't care if they are winning, losing or breaking even. The mistake you make is that you believe (due to their name) that they are better than me, and as they are claiming a loss then I am wrong to suggest otherwise. Either of those guys having a losing year in 2008 has NOTHING to do with me and I'm struggling to see why you think it does. Oooh, that head is growing larger by the minute. As I said Billy, you must be the best pro gambler ever.:notworthy My naming the two respected pro's is a word of caution. Be careful of over confidence, you might lose what you have worked so hard to achieve. :ok Ginge it's unrealistic for you maybe, but there are people in this game who know more and are better than you. You must understand this and learn to deal with it. Oh I do understand that Mr. Harry Enfield, you are so much better than I.;) There didn't qualify for the thread, but there were still written up on here! And so were a lot of losers, they prove nothing as far as I am concerned. The thread was a specialist thread, concentrating on certain races. I did however continue to tip on daily threads (in less detail). I am saying that the success I had away from my thread resulted in me having a much better year than my thread suggested. If you say so Billy, just a shame the thread with P/L did not show it. You may have, others may have. I jusy prefer to believe what is in front of me, it's just a natural thing for anyone to do. For exmple can you not comprehend that I may have had an out of line bet on my own? Given the fact that I know more about them and have studied them intensively over the years? Yes I can, but I find it difficult to believe it made a significant difference to your P/L % profit. Is that so difficult to understand? 6% to 10% is a big enough gap for me to believe without real evidence. I don't think I am being unfair in what I am willing to believe. There were of course losers, but a healthy profit was made overall. Don't have any problem with that.:ok I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand that I made money away from my thread last season. One look at my 2009 thread suggests that I find winners in all types of races. Aaahhh, I see where your problem is now Billy. Because I never said I did not believe you made a profit on these races. Obviously if someone has a 6% on say half of his betting. To bring his over all profit up to just 10%, his last half profits would have to be much better than 10%. That is why I have difficulty believing you made significantly more than 10% overall. By the way with regards to my thread, do you still think having a list to follow is a "mugs" game? Maybe it is, if you're a mug. Oh, I wish you had not brought that up Billy, don't think I'd better comment at this stage. Might PM you, I think that might be fairer. So you can put me right.:ok I believe you constantly look for opportunities to "score points" in discussions with me, your quest for kudos is something I've learned to put up. Not after kudos mate or score points, I like to have discussions with people who are clearly knowledgeable about the game. But I am not going to say I agree with you if I don't. The recent one regarding breeding a prime example. Your comments were so inaccurate, and when I proved them as such you moved the goalposts - I'm convinced the need to disagree with me clouds your judgement. I think it may be a case that you do not like being questioned Billy, you are always right oh great one.;) That is 100% fine with me. Your opinion doesn't put food on my table. It seems my opinion matters more than you are letting on Billy. However I do think it's sad how this thread has turned out. I'm always up for a discussion but I feel this thread however was something more (or less actually) than that. Which is a shame. Finally, my responses in this thread were an act of defence. I felt my name and word were questioned and therefore I felt I should defend it. I'm sure many would've done the same.

I am sure they would Billy, just because I dared to disagree with your comment that betting a lot of times ENSURES you profit; you started these wholesale unrealistic (imo) claims, which just might be true but I have difficulty believing. Am sure you can get over it. :ok Ginge

[Gingertipster]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? My last post, sorry if this is is getting on anyone's nerves but have to explain a few things. BH, “The individual threads are great and some of the write ups are a pleasure to read. But the profit and loss is only worth anything if every bet is included. If it's not then it falls on it's face and no-one likes after eventing, it's pointless to even mention it”. The above is a paragraph on Billy's thread, # 422. Not something that I said but something you wrote BH (not particularly aimed at him). So I don't really see why you have a problem with what I've said. Just because Billy “makes a living out of it” does not mean he should be able to claim whatever he wants, without us being able to question it. Equally, just because he has made these claims does not mean his thread “falls on it's face” like (from the above paragraph) you seem to believe BH. In my posts I have said, I had no problem in believing Billy had a bit better year than his 6% profitable thread. I have no problem believing a bit of aftertiming. I know I do a bit of it myself (as you say). But I am not claiming my aftertiming made a significant difference to my overall P/L. So there is a big difference between what I am claiming and Billy. May be Billy is just extremely over-confident. But the stuff like, “there is no way I will lose over a course of a year, well it's close to impossible”, just sounded to me like an advert and is unrealistic. Don't get me wrong, apart from some niggling doubts; I still believe Billy is a very good profitable punter. Probably a better punter than I am. It is not a case of my one's bigger than your one. Good luck to anyone who wants to subscribe to his (no doubt profitable) tipping services. Hope that explains things. Ginge

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

I am sure they would Billy' date=' just because I dared to disagree with your comment that betting a lot of times ENSURES you profit; [b']you started these wholesale unrealistic (imo) claims, which may be true but I have difficulty believing. Am sure you can get over it.:ok Ginge

Even though they were tipped in advance? :lol And don't dress it up as a discussion, you flat out accused me of lying. It doesn't bother me, I have nothing to prove and I believe the accusation says far more about you than it does me. I'm sure we are both having a decent flat season so lets concentrate on that. :ok

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

My last post, sorry if this is is getting on anyone's nerves but have to explain a few things. BH, “The individual threads are great and some of the write ups are a pleasure to read. But the profit and loss is only worth anything if every bet is included. If it's not then it falls on it's face and no-one likes after eventing, it's pointless to even mention it”. The above is a paragraph on Billy's thread, # 422. Not something that I said but something you wrote BH (not particularly aimed at him). So I don't really see why you have a problem with what I've said. Just because Billy “makes a living out of it” does not mean he should be able to claim whatever he wants, without us being able to question it. Equally, just because he has made these claims does not mean his thread “falls on it's face” like (from the above paragraph) you seem to believe BH. In my posts I have said, I had no problem in believing Billy had a bit better year than his 6% profitable thread. I have no problem believing a bit of aftertiming. I know I do a bit of it myself (as you say). But I am not claiming my aftertiming made a significant difference to my overall P/L. So there is a big difference between what I am claiming and Billy. May be Billy is just extremely over-confident. But the stuff like, “there is no way I will lose over a course of a year, well it's close to impossible”, just sounded to me like an advert and is unrealistic. Don't get me wrong, apart from some niggling doubts; I still believe Billy is a very good profitable punter. Probably a better punter than I am. It is not a case of my one's bigger than your one. Good luck to anyone who wants to subscribe to his (no doubt profitable) tipping services. Hope that explains things. Ginge

No aftertiming - for the 3rd time they were proofed elsewhere on ATR. It's not a subscripiton service. And I post EVERY result up on my blog, not many tipsters do that.

[Gingertipster]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?

Even though they were tipped in advance? :lol And don't dress it up as a discussion, you flat out accused me of lying. It doesn't bother me, I have nothing to prove and I believe the accusation says far more about you than it does me. I'm sure we are both having a decent flat season so lets concentrate on that. :ok

NO! I did not accuse you of lying, I have great difficulty in believing your claims. There is a big didfference. It was a discussion, a heated one granted. Up until you started those claims Billy. But if you want to feel hard done by, believe what you like. You have chosen to see things that are not there Billy, please see my underlined point about having to have a better than 10% profit on the second half of a season, to increase over all prrofit from 6% to 10% and concentrate on that. (#85 paragraph beginning with Aaaahh) It is a big complement on your ability as a punter, but you choose not to see it that way.:wall Mark (Ginge)

[billy the punter]

Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)?