GaF Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 How often do we hear people say "I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them"? Well lets try and exercise that myth - here's the benchmarking data for them ..... no-one is winning an average of less than 100xBigBlinds/100 (50 Big Bets/100) with them and the top player is winning over 2600 Big Blinds/100 with them. What is also interesting is that the tightest player (by far) in the benchmarking is the player getting paid off the most on Aces - so that seems to indicate (within the very small sample) that tight players, at this level, can still get paid off with their big hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... C'mon now GaF dont keep me in suspence, 209 pkt aces over how many hands. My online poker is fixed conspirecy theory suggests about 40,000. Are you holding the "smoking gun"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Total hands per player are here ;) 200902W3 Benchmarking Summary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... So only once every 212 hands instead of every 225 hands, not quite a smoking gun. Bet theres even more in the next batch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... How often do we hear people say "I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them"? Well lets try and exercise that myth - Or even exorcise it. You don't want to exercise myths ... it just makes them stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... :lol :lol :lol :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... the vp$ip figure is below 100% does this imply people are flat claiing with AA preflop or even perhaps folding it?? is there ever a case to fold AA preflop in a cash game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgey Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Or even exorcise it. You don't want to exercise myths ... it just makes them stronger. :lol:lol:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... the vp$ip figure is below 100% does this imply people are flat claiing with AA preflop or even perhaps folding it?? Or a walk in the BB (you cannot put money in the pot if everyone folds to you) is there ever a case to fold AA preflop in a cash game? For us, no. I believe 2plus2 managed to engineer a theoretical situation where they believed it was right to fold Aces. We had a thread a little while ago on how little equity it was possible to have with Aces pre flop against 9 opponents and IIRC it was less than 1% - so if you can put people on specific hands (I don't know why - if they showed you their cards for some bizarre reason), then it could, theoretically be a massive massive fold pre flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Just looking through the database. Most of the hands are a walk in the BB. However some of them are where the BB faces limpers pre flop and doesnt raise - then money goes in post flop - that doesn't seem to count as VPIP - VPIP only seems to apply pre flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Lady Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Hand from an hour ago... :loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... the vp$ip figure is below 100% is there ever a case to fold AA preflop in a cash game? If you are playing a cash game and five or six people are allin and the guy to act before you announces call and turns over the other two aces. Everyone has you covered and the dealer announces that you can still act and the guys aces are not dead. I think I could possibly fold....possibly. :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karel Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Did both holding AA limp, as why would J 4 be in the hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Did both holding AA limp' date=' as why would J 4 be in the hand?[/quote'] Never mind that, the call with 99 is a shocker on the botton :> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie14 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Never mind that' date=' the call with 99 is a shocker on the botton :>[/quote'] I don't think Sam has called, that's her folded cards ;) ....or was that sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... I don't think Sam has called, that's her folded cards ;) ....or was that sarcasm. poorly executed sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... How did he end up getting it in with J4 when there must have been so much action ahead of him with AA, AA and 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Lady Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... Both AAs had slow played and to see the flop just flat called the raise that I had made , the BB had called (i thought he had small pr at the time) I wasn't in the pot after the flop as the BB (J4) had gone all in and my read on him from what he had previously played was that he had either 2pr or had hit trips. Both the AAs called as they thought that they had him beaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: I hate Aces, I always get outdrawn with them.... For both the aces to get it in after alot of action is pretty mental too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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