Awkward hands

[Mr Intensity]

I don't normally post hand histories up (but maybe I will more often) but I'd like to know what other people would have done here. I've been at the table about 20 minutes. Played fairly loose, and I don't think I've shown anything big. No read on the other player as I haven't really been paying attention:$:$ ***** Hand 1190044207 ***** 0.25/0.50 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 08 August 2008 15:05:50 Table TH 609 (Real /Cash Game ) Seat 1: PLMrI (60.05) Seat 2: niko1789 (28.51) Seat 3: sukerxxx (8.17) Seat 4: XxaxaxX (50.20) Seat 5: gioiaraul (69.20) XxaxaxX post SB 0.25 gioiaraul post BB 0.50 ** Deal ** PLMrI [5d, 5h] niko1789 [N/A, N/A] sukerxxx [N/A, N/A] XxaxaxX [N/A, N/A] gioiaraul [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** PLMrI Raise to 1.50 niko1789 Fold sukerxxx Fold XxaxaxX Fold gioiaraul Call 1.50 *** Flop(Board): *** : [5c, 7d, 9h] *** Bet Round 2 *** gioiaraul Bet 3.25 PLMrI Raise to 10.56 gioiaraul Call 10.56 *** Turn(Board): *** : [5c, 7d, 9h, Js] *** Bet Round 3 *** gioiaraul Check PLMrI Bet 12.18 gioiaraul Call 12.18 *** River(Board): *** : [5c, 7d, 9h, Js, 6d] *** Bet Round 4 *** gioiaraul All-in 44.96 Nice flop, but I'm already thinking it might go bad later on with more overcards or more help for the straight. When he calls on the turn I'm really not sure - the way I've been playing so far I've had quite a few hands where the other guy has folded on the turn. On the river I've got 35.81 left, he's either desperate, got a marginal hand (A9, AJ or some 2 pair combo) been leading me on with a bigger set or hit the straight at some point. Would you call?:unsure ***Outcome in post 11

[staffy]

Re: Awkward hands bhe has 88

[robsterling]

Re: Awkward hands Bet more on the turn so that you have no decision on the river. The pot is $24.37 on the turn, bet about $19. That will make the pot $62.37 on the river and your stack would be $28.99. This makes the call never an issue and gets more money from your opponent. As played I would imagine he does have an 8 as that is the only draw on the turn giving him a double gutter. Still whether the river is a call or not depends on your reads on the player.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Awkward hands pretty strong line really/// I almost definately fold. Ive changed my mind about this hand a lot. Im trying to think of hands he could bet/call the flop, check/call the turn and mash the river with. The only hands that make sense to me are 88, 78 and 89 (does he call pf with 88 or repop??). Please say you called just so we can find out what he had??!?!

[Mr Intensity]

Re: Awkward hands Yeah I called. I'll put it up a bit later:ok

[Mr Intensity]

Re: Awkward hands Nobody think he's desperate on the river? I've raised him on the flop and bet the turn, so he could think there's a good chance I'll bet the river too. That's the impression his all in gave me. Agree about the bet on the turn - I tend to get into the habit of using the buttons and just bet 1/2 the pot:$ (more often I do 3/4 the pot which probably would have been better here).

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Awkward hands

bhe has 88

thats exactly what i was thinking:okor at least an 8. it looks like he had an ok hand +draw and hit,till the river it looks like the villan has something but not something massive ,so dogs range looks about what i'd expect .

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Awkward hands

Nobody think he's desperate on the river? I've raised him on the flop and bet the turn, so he could think there's a good chance I'll bet the river too. That's the impression his all in gave me. Agree about the bet on the turn - I tend to get into the habit of using the buttons and just bet 1/2 the pot:$ (more often I do 3/4 the pot which probably would have been better here).

my thinking is, he bets the flop hoping to end it, when he calls the raise he has a piece of it imo. When he check calls the turn i think 78/89 look likely because the although its an overcard its helped his equity against a made hand on the flop alot. The river just screams strength to me, so by that point he has either made the straight or is bluffing the 6 with a weak made hand that didnt improve i guess (7T??!?!). I really dont know but i think he has the straight quite often.

[daftpegasus]

Re: Awkward hands I'm going to go against the general opinion here and suggest that the river is a bluff. Pre flop he could have any 2 cards. post flop he puts in a pot size bet - again any 2 cards could do this. After that it almost depends on whether he's a fish or a good player. Calling the re-raise, the bet on the turn and then an over bet on the river could put him in the former category in my opinion. If he had the 8 surely a bet about $30 would guarantee a call and therefore a pay off, and may even tempt you into re raising all in. It wouldn't surprise me to see him holding AK, A9, 96, 76

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Awkward hands

I'm going to go against the general opinion here and suggest that the river is a bluff. Pre flop he could have any 2 cards. post flop he puts in a pot size bet - again any 2 cards could do this. After that it almost depends on whether he's a fish or a good player. Calling the re-raise, the bet on the turn and then an over bet on the river could put him in the former category in my opinion. If he had the 8 surely a bet about $30 would guarantee a call and therefore a pay off, and may even tempt you into re raising all in. It wouldn't surprise me to see him holding AK, A9, 96, 76

That bet sizing is too logical, ive seen (been the victim of) people open shoving AA while ive been sitting with KK trying to find a way out of calling. If he has a straight then i suppose the all in was a way of planting the seed of doubt [why would he not just valuetown me etc]

[Mr Intensity]

Re: Awkward hands Thanks for the reply guys PLMrI All-in 35.81 *** Showdown *** : Rake: 3.00 Total Pot: 117.35 PLMrI [5d, 5h] Three of a kind, fives Win: 117.35 niko1789 Fold Win: 0.00 sukerxxx Fold Win: 0.00 XxaxaxX Fold Win: 0.00 gioiaraul [10h, Kh] Highest card king Win: 0.00 :lol:lol:lol

[Nade]

Re: Awkward hands I'm surprised the guy didn't have 88 TBH. Just banged this guys likely range in nearly all scenarios here on the river: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 46.575% 46.58% 00.00% 34 0.00 { 5d5h } Hand 1: 53.425% 53.42% 00.00% 39 0.00 { JJ-66, AJs, A9s, KTs, 98s, AJo, A9o, 98o, 87o } It then only becomes 50/50 when you throw in the total bluff, but discounting 98o and 87o it improves your equity by near 10%. So it's really close between fold and call, but generally if you can put bluffs in someones range here you get a lot more equity. And i hope you made a note for future reference ;)

[robsterling]

Re: Awkward hands

Nobody think he's desperate on the river? I've raised him on the flop and bet the turn' date=' so he could think there's a good chance I'll bet the river too. That's the impression his all in gave me.[/quote'] Not saying specifically you, but a lot of players at 50nl and players in general don't value bet anywhere near thin enough. You will find a lot of these weaker players checking behind on scary rivers, like the one in your hand. So if they do hit their draw on the river shoving into the better is definitely the best line. His range really is air or an 8 in this hand, and you just have to use your reads on him thus far to make the decision to call or not. But yeah definitely bet more on the turn to avoid these spots in future. Here's a similar hand I had yesterday: Seat 1: Button ($187.61) Seat 2: SB ($182.99) Seat 3: BB ($150.00) Seat 4: Villain ($135.04) Seat 5: Hero ($515.25) *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Hero [2h 2s] Villain raises $3.00 Hero calls $3.00 Button calls $3.00 SB calls $3.00 BB folds *** FLOP *** [Ah Kc 2c] SB checks Villain bets $10.12 Hero raises $30.00 BB folds SB folds Villain calls $30.00 *** TURN *** [Ah Kc 2c] [Qs] Villain checks Hero bets $52.00 Villain calls $52.00 *** RIVER *** [Ah Kc 2c Qs] [4c] Villain goes all-in with $50.04 Hero calls $50.04 *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $274.58 | Rake $3.00 Board: [Ah Kc 2c Qs 4c] Hero won ($0.00), mucks Villain won ($274.58), showed [Tc 8c] The turn bet just means that a call with the flush draw + gutshot was pretty bad, I thought he/she could have something like AK or AQ and obviously a flush draw. I think the river is always a call with the amount in the pot. So totally happy with how I played it.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Awkward hands nice bluff and nice call. It was definately a good card for him to bluff and was credible imo...