Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query

[Valiant23]

Playing a HORSE SnG on Stars. My Omaha sucks - My Omaha hi/lo sucks less (I think). I understand where I am when I'm playing the lo, but this hand puzzled me. Was I in good shape with the hi hand on the flop? - I was aware of the higher straight but thought I had plenty of mileage in my holding. Did I play it correctly or badly? ALL opinions would be appreciated. Table '100456909 2' 8-max Seat #8 is the button Seat 1: mnugent (2710 in chips) Seat 2: nikopsg (1410 in chips) Seat 3: Valiant23 (1530 in chips) Seat 4: itsme89102 (1430 in chips) Seat 5: JAROBICHAUD (1180 in chips) Seat 6: muldegulde (1380 in chips) is sitting out Seat 7: crafty3 (1130 in chips) Seat 8: tante jude (1230 in chips) mnugent: posts small blind 15 nikopsg: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Valiant23 [3h 7h Ac 8s] Valiant23: calls 30 itsme89102: calls 30 JAROBICHAUD: calls 30 muldegulde: folds crafty3: calls 30 tante jude: calls 30 mnugent: calls 15 nikopsg: checks *** FLOP *** [7s 9s 6c] mnugent: checks nikopsg: checks Valiant23: checks itsme89102: bets 30 JAROBICHAUD: calls 30 crafty3: raises 30 to 60 tante jude: raises 30 to 90 mnugent: folds nikopsg: calls 90 Valiant23: raises 30 to 120 Betting is capped itsme89102: calls 90 JAROBICHAUD: calls 90 crafty3: calls 60 tante jude: calls 30 nikopsg: calls 30 *** TURN *** [7s 9s 6c] [2h] nikopsg: checks Valiant23: bets 60 itsme89102: calls 60 JAROBICHAUD: calls 60 crafty3: raises 60 to 120 tante jude: raises 60 to 180 nikopsg: folds Valiant23: raises 60 to 240 Betting is capped itsme89102: calls 180 JAROBICHAUD: calls 180 crafty3: calls 120 tante jude: calls 60 *** RIVER *** [7s 9s 6c 2h] [3s] Valiant23: checks itsme89102: bets 60 JAROBICHAUD: folds crafty3: calls 60 tante jude: calls 60 Valiant23: calls 60 *** SHOW DOWN *** itsme89102: shows [9h As Qs 9d] (HI: a flush, Ace high) crafty3: shows [Js 8d 5h 8h] (HI: a straight, Five to Nine; LO: 8,6,5,3,2) tante jude: mucks hand Valiant23: shows [3h 7h Ac 8s] (HI: two pair, Sevens and Threes; LO: 7,6,3,2,A) itsme89102 collected 1185 from pot Valiant23 collected 1185 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 2370 | Rake 0 Board [7s 9s 6c 2h 3s] Seat 1: mnugent (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 2: nikopsg (big blind) folded on the Turn Seat 3: Valiant23 showed [3h 7h Ac 8s] and won (1185) with HI: two pair, Sevens and Threes; LO: 7,6,3,2,A Seat 4: itsme89102 showed [9h As Qs 9d] and won (1185) with HI: a flush, Ace high Seat 5: JAROBICHAUD folded on the River Seat 6: muldegulde folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: crafty3 showed [Js 8d 5h 8h] and lost with HI: a straight, Five to Nine; LO: 8,6,5,3,2 Seat 8: tante jude (button) mucked [Th 8c 2s Tc]

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query i would not be happy with the high if it was on its own but with the possible lo thrown in it becomes an ok hand on that flop:ok as a rule i tend to steer clear of hands with 78 unless you have a good lo to go with it. if you hit your nut straight but no lo you will only hit half the pot in limit as you cant push a lo out .pl is a bit different as its tricky to call pot bets with a 2nd nut lo on its own,so you can scoop the pot with a push. with the good lo its worth staying in on the flop and tbh the raise is probably a good play as it may push a couple of players out, which is always good:) think you played it perfectly really,bit unlucky with the river as you coulda made a bit more out of it. however if it was omaha i would have dumped it on the flop. for a start i never draw to a hand that may already be behind ,very bad idea:spank also with the betting in front and it being limit there's no way your getting rid of many people at this point ,so all sorts of hands could be out there:loon so people could be calling with gutshots that could leave you drawing dead ,in fact the only turn/river i would be utterly happy with is 77:eek best to save yourself the money now before pot odds take over and you have to make crying calls later:ok hope you dont play that sort of hand(pre flop) in omaha andy ,your on a hiding to nothing if u do;)

[Valiant23]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query I'm looking forward to paying £50 for my lesson in Nottm. :unsure Cheers Uber Still struggling with 'normal' Omaha, but HORSE STT's are a good way (for me) of playing low hands and if I can take a high hand as well then its a bonus. As it happens I went out in Omaha...my AAJJ double suited lost to KK33 which tripped. :(

[friskyfitz]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query Literally - it was a split pot there - You were destroyed on the "hi" bit but your "Lo" held out..... Any Ace, Two,Three combo is massive for a split pot in these but you need to have big Big hands in Hi-Lo.. Its a game that bugs me as I cannot find an advantage in it!!!! :eyes:eyes:eyes

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query

I'm looking forward to paying £50 for my lesson in Nottm. :unsure Cheers Uber Still struggling with 'normal' Omaha, but HORSE STT's are a good way (for me) of playing low hands and if I can take a high hand as well then its a bonus. As it happens I went out in Omaha...my AAJJ double suited lost to KK33 which tripped. :(

dont worry mate it's only £25 a lesson in omaha;):lol

[dik9]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query Fold pre flop. If I was BB I would fold to any bet on flop. Got lucky on turn IMO And kicking myself on the River, and fold to any bet.

[heniek31]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query It wont hurt to see the flop with that hand. Flop its not perfect, but after raise and re raise in front of me, I'm done with that hand. HI is dead and with so many in the hand possible A2 out there. Comes your turn on the flop and you 3rd raise? :eek I haven't got a clue what were you thinking :unsure. You got very lucky on the turn, as the only card that saves your ass drops. After seeing the flop you have to seek to maximize your winnings. You need both hi and lo to be alive. Otherwise if one half is dead, other one has to hold a nuts (not those ones ;)). Thats just my simple mind.

[PGremlin]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query Is it bad to bet when your only good shot is the lo? On the turn Valiant had the nut lo, so I would have bet also. Is that a wrong play?

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query

Is it bad to bet when your only good shot is the lo? On the turn Valiant had the nut lo, so I would have bet also. Is that a wrong play?

yes its bad to play just the low because you can only ever get half the pot at best. in a lot of situations its worthwhile calling down hands but not betting them because you want to keep things cheap. with 4 other players in the pot its likely that someone else has a3 and you dont want to be up against that with no high. if say you had a34 on the turn its worthwhile pushing the pot a bit in case the ace or 3 drop . if you had a3 plus a good draw then its worth pushing a bit as well. a good rule of thumb is only bet raise when you can win the whole pot and just flat call if your likely to win 1 way:ok one thing to remember is a low will only appear about two thirds of the time so playing just for half the pot 66% of the time is never a good idea,always try and have some outs for a high as well. btw pushing with just a low against multiple opponents in pl is likely to get you the nastiest reaction you will see on any table;). anyone with the nut low is usually forced to call because of pot odds and you leave the way open to a reraise from a nut high.then you end up with a quarter of the pot or maybe even less. this will really anger anyone else and you will get called a fish:tongue2

[PGremlin]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query Somehow i feel compelled to bet big with lo nuts :tongue2

[Valiant23]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query

yes its bad to play just the low because you can only ever get half the pot at best.

But this is a general startegy I employ in hi/lo games... You're in a hand with a very good lo hand, and there are two players who you believe are playing the high hand then its in your interest to provoke action between the two high players, surely? In fact, I'd also suggest that if there are more than two players and you have the nut lo its vital for you to be over aggressive because you need to build the pot. The other thing is you can quite often hit the miracle cards that will give you a winning high hand to go with your nut lo. I don't know if its my Razz background, or if its a safe haven for beginners to play the lo, but I feel more confident of where I am with a low hand than I do the high. With high hands I'll fold the better hand a lot of the time cos I'm worried about the nuts, and when I play the second best high hand and ignore the nuts I get screwed.

[PGremlin]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query Hmmm.. what about one on one? Imagine you have the Low nut: A, 2, 3 and there is a 7, 8, 9 on the flop. Almost no chance on winning the high unless you hit a runner runner, but almost certain to get the low. Only one other player in the pot. If you play this passively you'll just split the pot. If you play it aggressively there is a chance he doesn't think his high is good enough and he might fold it giving you the whole pot. Is this train of thought flawed? With multible players I see the added value of getting a bigger pot, but the situation you want to avoid is splitting the lo pot giving you only a 25% share of the pot? It could end up costing you stack instead of winning some on an off chance of also getting the high. I don't see a clear truth yet. I see valuable wisedom in both sides. Guess I need to factor in more elements to decide if playing a situation like this aggressively with just a lo hand would be profitable in the long run.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query you can get the other guy to fold if its pl and hu then its worth a go. i would bet pot to see where i was ,if he rebets me pot then i would consider folding.if he calls on a drawy not possibly already made board and nothing scary hits i would pot bet again. you dont want to get into a big pot that you can only win 1 way. for a start why play a big pot hu when all you get back is your bet -the rake. or the ther guy might have a2 as well plus a good to very good high:eek then your in deep trouble. if your ace or 2 hit ,again your in big trouble. the other way of playing it is keeping it cheap till the river then pot bet there if you still have the nut low .then just flat call if they reraise:) limits a bit different as you cant really get rid of players but the principles the same .cheap pot with a nut low ,big pot with the nut high or a very good hand both ways.

[glceud]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query Playing a lot of omaha hi/lo just now but like you still trying to get to grips with it. For what its worth heres my view Preflop- easy call without any raises before or after you. Flop-Theres no way I'm capping the betting with your holding in fact after the raise and reraise after the flop I'm out of there. Theres far too may hands your miles behind. Turn- you've made the nut low, but as yet you have no high hand. Obviousley not folding but certainly not capping the betting again. River- check call and pray time. For the record the other 2 hands at showdown are hands I would never play. Is the omaha leg in horse always that loose?

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Omaha hi/lo Simple(?) Query

Playing a lot of omaha hi/lo just now but like you still trying to get to grips with it. For what its worth heres my view Preflop- easy call without any raises before or after you. Flop-Theres no way I'm capping the betting with your holding in fact after the raise and reraise after the flop I'm out of there. Theres far too may hands your miles behind. Turn- you've made the nut low, but as yet you have no high hand. Obviousley not folding but certainly not capping the betting again. River- check call and pray time. For the record the other 2 hands at showdown are hands I would never play. Is the omaha leg in horse always that loose?

yes usually:okfor some people its the only time they might play om hilo so they usually arent that good. anyone playing a lot of hilo has a big edge in this leg,similar but less so with the stud hilo as well.