GaF Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 .....and it's getting to me - the challenge has gone downhill since the last update... I can see that my opponents are really bad. But I cannot work out how to exploit them!!! So I'm going to sit down now, 1 table, for between 30 mins and 60 mins...I'm going to record the session and would appreciate feedback on it!! What dont you like about my play? What could I have done better? Why am I posting here before doing it? As a "control" - I'm only playing one session - good or bad, I'll be putting that video up!! I don't want loads of PL'rs turning up to play at my table - I want to play typical 5c/10c players...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 22, 2007 Author Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... OK - that was BAD!! I can't believe I played like that with the video running :$ I might skip putting the video up - not sure there's anything to be learnt from it - I played poorly and I know I did, and I know I can do better :$ Maybe my issue is discipline :$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgey Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Maybe my issue is discipline :$ Have never seen you play cash mate - but maybe it's patience (or lack of it)? Against some players sometimes the only way to beat them is not to bluff them off pots but to actually wait for decent hands and let them hang themselves? :unsure I'd be interested if you are planning on doing another session and post it up to view.... :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... tbh imo trev,,you are way better than playing these tables, all this will do is knock your confidence and imo poker is all about confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Perhaps you're playing way above your limit. Perhaps if you found a site with 1c/2c tables you'd see a vast improvement in your game:rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazabroad Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Perhaps you're playing way above your limit. Perhaps if you found a site with 1c/2c tables you'd see a vast improvement in your game:rollin Sometimes its best to face up to the truth :sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Perhaps you're playing way above your limit. Perhaps if you found a site with 1c/2c tables you'd see a vast improvement in your game:rollin LOL! But yeah in all seriousness a video is ok, or just think would you feel happy enough with your play if you were to post the hand up? Not played 5 seater cash, but 6 seater cash I imagine is the same maybe add a few more hands to open with UTG. In 5 seater I don't think I would ever limp unless the whole table did, certainly never open limp. Only c-bet often at the guys who will fold to c-bets, you got the stats for this don't you? Value bet anything they will call with A high I was valuebetting 33 on the river against an opp yesterday was interesting experience. And again only 3 bet light (with or without position) people who will actually fold to 3bets. And finally don't foll yourself into thinking metagame exists at all! You will easily crack it though, post some stuff up or something. Good luck! (And don't play with scared money :tongue2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippe6 Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... 5c 10 c is good for rakeing hands no bluffing waiting for monsters praying for them to stand up, fancy play wont stand up they to thick to know your doing it.all they bothered about is seeing all the cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Agree Kippe6 playing at these stakes only seems worthwhile for raking hands it really is just a big donkathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurzel133 Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... at this level its difficult to make people fold they want to call u down with nothing so bluffing fails more often than not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... I can't imagine any decent player winning at those levels, it is just game of bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... I can't imagine any decent player winning at those levels' date=' it is just game of bingo.[/quote'] Surely any decent player can adjust to those at the table around him? If a table full of people playing like they do at 10nl were playing 100nl you would avoid the table? I'd be in there like a shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Surely any decent player can adjust to those at the table around him? If a table full of people playing like they do at 10nl were playing 100nl you would avoid the table? I'd be in there like a shot! True. Do you think it might be the case that an increase in stake sharpens the wits a little? How easy is it to really want to win at this level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Surely any decent player can adjust to those at the table around him? If a table full of people playing like they do at 10nl were playing 100nl you would avoid the table? I'd be in there like a shot! The value is so low and the amount of chips at the table is worthless people are pushing every round and the pf% is sky high thus preventing you from playing any poker and the game becomes a game of chance. (oh and btw stop calling me shirley) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Well that's all mentality. I mean if I'm playing cash I'm just playing for bb's ignoring what the bb is worth really, I just want to be making as many bb's / hand as I can. Whether I play 10nl or 100nl (these are the max and min I've played) I always play as optimally for the stake and table as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... I know someone who 12 tables $10nl for about a $16 profit an hour, which is quite worthwhile money, I think. It's very easy to crack and money to be made, if you can't exploit people who play too loose, you can't exploit anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 22, 2007 Author Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... The value is so low and the amount of chips at the table is worthless people are pushing every round and the pf% is sky high thus preventing you from playing any poker and the game becomes a game of chance. (oh and btw stop calling me shirley) If we cannot beat players who push every round and have sky high pf%, who can we beat? Well that's all mentality. I mean if I'm playing cash I'm just playing for bb's ignoring what the bb is worth really' date=' I just want to be making as many bb's / hand as I can. Whether I play 10nl or 100nl (these are the max and min I've played) I always play as optimally for the stake and table as I can.[/quote'] Agree totally :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... The value is so low and the amount of chips at the table is worthless people are pushing every round and the pf% is sky high thus preventing you from playing any poker and the game becomes a game of chance. (oh and btw stop calling me shirley) It's a game of chance anyway, you have to make the right calls at whatever level you play. Personally I think it's a psychological thing. How do you play properly when you know it's for peanuts? It HAS to change your game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... If we cannot beat players who push every round and have sky high pf%, who can we beat? If you don't regularly play at that level with that mentality you will probably suffer as it knocks you off your game and all logic goes out of the window. If you remember the quote by jesus about if a player went all in every hand he'd be a better favourite to win against a pro than trying to play against him (I know it related to HU but the basic principle still applies) It just begs the question why would you want to? Probably don't want to know the answer ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... It's a game of chance anyway' date=' you have to make the right calls at whatever level you play. Personally I think it's a psychological thing. How do you play properly when you know it's for peanuts? It HAS to change your game.[/quote'] True the psychological aspect does have a bearing - in tourneys as well (I'd play a freeroll like a maniac) but I think the chance % diminishes and the skill factor comes more into play the higher the level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... What stakes cash do you play anyway WASP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... What stakes cash do you play anyway WASP? Mainly $2/4 online but have dabbled at $5/10, live I mainly play 5/5 GBP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... So detatched from the micro game! Lol Seriously though v good work, what level did you start at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Started at 12/25 but I gave cash up for a good year but I have recently started it again in the last few months and it's been going well. Will probably move up off 2/4 very soon in the new year :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 22, 2007 Author Share Posted December 22, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... I firmly believe you should be able to beat any level up to the level you are playing at - if I've got weaknesses that are exploited at the very lowest levels, I want to iron them out of my game, not play better opponents that I hope cannot take advantage of my weaknesses :loon However enough people here expressing the view that you can struggle at the microstakes without being that bad (I'm far from convinced :unsure) that I've kindof persuaded myself to "take a shot" at a higher level and see what happens.... :loon Think I'l try again one more time at the 5c/10c though and play more TAG (my natural game anyway) and less LAG, even though it's short handed..... lets see what happens :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... .....and it's getting to me - the challenge has gone downhill since the last update... I can see that my opponents are really bad. But I cannot work out how to exploit them!!! So I'm going to sit down now, 1 table, for between 30 mins and 60 mins...I'm going to record the session and would appreciate feedback on it!! What dont you like about my play? What could I have done better? Why am I posting here before doing it? As a "control" - I'm only playing one session - good or bad, I'll be putting that video up!! I don't want loads of PL'rs turning up to play at my table - I want to play typical 5c/10c players...... I've been generally single tabing (max two tables) ten-seater 0.05/0.10 for about eight months (glutton, I know!) on Virgin. I've run between 6 & 25 BB/100, playing TAG over 17000 hands, with a v$ip of 17-18%. I've found it to be very much a case of two steps forwards, one step back. Its not easy, and when I run bad its soul destroying. On two occassions I lost over $100 in a month - I know I played bad some of the time, but I also hit terrible beats, time and again. One month I lost with KK 13 times on the trot and this lead me to play soooo tight that I was was ready to fold everything bar kings and aces to a reraise :$ The one time I flopped AA I got beat by a set of Kings :rollin I tend to play between 4pm&7pm or 10pm&midnight (which is why I don't enter the focus games :sad ) and have learned to stay away from Friday nights... the drunken, reckless play on Friday nights, means you'll either win huge or lose huge! Even if you wait patiently for Aces, you'll find three callers to your 4xBB+1_per_limper raise and by the turn someone with 33 will have you all-in. Whilst I've made a steady profit playing these tables, about 2 months ago I started playing tournaments costing between $1 & $5. I've generally been playing tournies on Laddies, a few on Paradise and a couple on 32red ( :dude ). I've made more money playing tournies over the past couple of months, than I have in cash games over eight months. Hmm?!?!?!?!?! I'm starting to think there might be something in this. I also played S&G's for about six months. Did really well for 3 months and had the bankroll for $10+1 quite quickly. I then started losing like a thing-that-loses-a-lot, moved all the way back down to $1+0.10 and eventually gave up S&G's altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gazza271 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... I think Al and Bri make very valid points :ok I think at that level you are asking for trouble, you know you are well above that level so why play it ? I understand the bankroll issue but then you should also look at the tables ability/quality etc. You are far above that level and are doing yourself an injustice playing there. I would imagine that at that level the % of bad beats is much higher simply due to the "knowledge" of the game at that level. It's like my "works" home game, all idiots and I should cream it but you just cant legislate for the idiots :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol Not sure how it works with your "textbook" bankroll issues but you should be playing at a much higher level :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivrd Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Gaf, wha site are you playing these on ? and are you playing full ring table or 6 handed ? I'm generally crap myself at cash tables, especially the 5/10c tables always seem to get myself ahead then get blown away by some muppet calling. I just started trying the 10/25c turbo 6 handed on stars, sitting down with the minimum of $15 and trying to double it each session. ive been playing very LAG calling small raises with marginal hands or even A8 etc in or out of position. Also i have found that there is alot of limp limp limp, so ive been raising again with marginal hands again JQ, KJ etc to steal those limpers. Also callin alot of hands at first, I like them also to see some crap hands that i lose with, this seems to be working for me at the moment as when i have been hitting big hands ive been getting paid of well. Have played 3 sessions so far, and up $60 so must be working ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gazza271 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... Gaf, wha site are you playing these on ? and are you playing full ring table or 6 handed ? I'm generally crap myself at cash tables, especially the 5/10c tables always seem to get myself ahead then get blown away by some muppet calling. That's my point tho, at this level you are going to get called all the way to the river and so have to expect a higher than average suckout rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Re: I can't beat 5c/10c... I think at that level you are asking for trouble, you know you are well above that level so why play it ? Actually, no I don't :$ I've played tourneys a lot - typically involved TAG at the early stages waiting for playing stack sizes later, when it's shove or fold time - - the weakness in my game is post flop play - the large implied odds are what are being found out in my game when playing cash I would imagine that at that level the % of bad beats is much higher simply due to the "knowledge" of the game at that level. Bad beats dont bother me (as much as most) - I know that they are part of the game, I know they're normal, I know I want my opponents calling when they should fold - I can deal with them if I'm beating the game, and if I'm playing well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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