MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack

[slapdash]

I played the Mansion $150k guaranteed tournament last night, and for a while I was doing really well (at least partly through luck: I started off by doubling up on the very first hand with full house vs. full house ... I don't think there was any way my opponent could have got away from putting all his chips in). I was in the top ten for some time, and was the big stack on my table. During this period I was successfully bullying the other players and building my stack. I felt pretty good about how I was playing. Then I lost a sizeable pot and was no longer big stack at my table (the big stack was sitting a couple of places over me), though I was still comfortably in the top quarter of the field. Then I seemed to just start losing chips, and eventually got short-stacked enough that I went all-in, got called, and lost a race with KQ v JJ. I'm sure that to some extent this was because of my cards, but when I was no longer big stack at my table, I just didn't feel so comfortable about how I was playing. Basically, I feel I know what I'm doing when I'm short-stacked (lots of practice! :tongue2) and when I have a very big stack, but in between I feel I'm floundering a bit in the later stages of tournaments. Anybody have any general strategic tips about how to play in the later stages of a (reasonably high-standard ... this was $100 buy-in) tournament when you have a fairly big stack but there are bigger stacks at your table?

[GaF]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack I HATE having a mid stack and dont play it well at all.... say with 10 to 20 BB..... I tend to "go to sleep" at this stage and wait till I am short stacked enough to play my short stack game or I get hit over the head with the deck and build my stack.... I think conventional wisdom is to start loosening up and get more involved (and try to build a stack) isn't it? Like you though, I feel I just leak chips doing this..... I'll be interested in the other responses....

[happyhornet]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack I cannot recall ever being anything but a short-stack, so I may not be qualified to answer!!:loon However, it is a real difficult spot to be in. I have always played a little TAG in this position. If the cards come, i end up doing well. If they don't, I end up as a short stack. This is surely not the correct way to play, but it is all i know.:sad

[daftpegasus]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack This could get to be a very interesting thread because I think there will be a lot of people wanting to know the answers. I had a very similar situation last night in the Boss $100,000 last night. There was a very agressive player at the table who sized an early chip lead. I managed to double up through him twice in short succession and then finally took him out to have nearly twice as many chips as the rest of the table. up until that point I believe my image must have been tight as I'd only ever shown two full houses and flopped trips. I then bullied the table a little increasing my chip stack with each round but only ever with playable cards. The blinds were still low and I felt that keeping my tight table image would pay off by getting the respect of my opponents. That worked for a few rounds and then the cards dried up, my opponents started drawing closer in terms of chip stacks, my cards dried up futher. Just at the moment I should have accelerated I had neither the cards, nor the confidence to do it. Maybe it was because of the tournament prize - I don't know? In the end the blinds and opponents over took me until I ended up having to bluff with All In's from position whilst I waited for the cards that would help. Finally my 88 lost to AJ. I know where I missed the opportunity (trying to keep the tight image), I know why (poor cards & poor play), however I'm not sure what I should have changed about my game. Whilst I was the large chip stack I don't think that increasing my stack each round was wrong (if only by a little). It was when I was no longer the chip leader that I tightened up and the combination of poor cards and poor play crippled me. I think that the answer is to play more aggressively from position but actually doing that is harder than it seems. For example I've seen a lot of situation where several people limp into a pot and it gets to the BB who raises All In. Most of the time everyone folds. I also think it's important not to play the same aggressive hand each round e.g. always all in from the button to steal the blinds. It's important to take a risk which a good percentage of your chip stack from time to time, and also bear in mind that you will still often lose at this stage of the MTT - I think that's where the buy in/prize comes into play. I won my seat in a satellite and therefore was playing outside of my comfort zone - I'd have been happy to limp into the money, which is wrong. That's where I believe I went wrong last night, because I'd have been happy with that, I probably folded hands I could have played when I had enough chips.

[Tweetypie05]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack

I cannot recall ever being anything but a short-stack, so I may not be qualified to answer!!:loon However, it is a real difficult spot to be in. I have always played a little TAG in this position. If the cards come, i end up doing well. If they don't, I end up as a short stack. This is surely not the correct way to play, but it is all i know.:sad

I'm in the same boat as HH... I'd probably play the same TAG style most of the time but it' not always that simple for me. It depends how the table is playing and how many chips the players on the table have (obvious) but I find that especially when you're near the bubble and on around 10xBB its easy to be fooled into waiting for the money, similar to DPs post. For me I think the problem comes in thinking about your own cards too much as this stage, not the other players and then playing a different game to when you were doing/playing well... and then it all falls apart. This can be made much worse by having played well for a long time, been safely in the money spot and then suddenly being under pressure with the bubble approaching. Where are the forum Gurus to answer this question???

[NafYepmop]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack Position is the most important thing, dont call raises out of the blinds just because you have the chips have a hand to back it up. Steal the blinds of people who dont have the stack to defend them but not off the stacks that are liable to shove same goes when your raise has to get through such a player again have a hand to back it up. If you dont feel confident loosening up then TAG is the way to play theres little to loose playing that way. A good figure to work out i find is how many players will be left when my current stack will be the average this way i can see how comfortable i am to achieve my goal of cashing thus how active i need to be.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack i had problems last night, just got left behind in the later stages of a horrible rebuy on pokerstars (im actually proud i got as far as I did considering I try and steer clear of rebuys...) I had roughly 80-130k chips for about an hour probably, couldnt find spots to get any bigger (of course my steals with weaker hands get shoved to and my same size raises with KK and AA get folded to lol) Im just so pathetic when it gets to this stage unless i have a tiny stack (and nothing to lose) or a massive stack. I was sayin to my mate when i reached the money (had about average stack then) that i hadnt had any luck. He started watchin me and I won with 66 v 77 and then 44 vs 99, so i had my share of luck, but in the end, i dont think im good enough at these latter stages... cashed for 190$ in 29th i think, but 180th was 80 dollars, and 1st was 11k, so maybe i shoula risked a bit more when i got into the money with an average stack...

[guesswest]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack

Then I lost a sizeable pot and was no longer big stack at my table (the big stack was sitting a couple of places over me), though I was still comfortably in the top quarter of the field.

Assuming you're still on the same table, I think knowing how you lost that big pot is going to be very important in determining how to play... A big stack losing a huge amount of chips like that, especially in a big tournament, is something everyone at your table will take note of and remember, consciously or not. Especially if it seems like an 'answer,' - if they've seen you take a lot of pots without seeing your cards. If you lost that big pot when you didn't have much of a hand, or obviously overvalued it, or were trying to buy the pot, it would be a good time to go TAG because you'll get action when you hit. If someone sucked out on you, or you just ran into something you reasonably couldn't get away from - then I'd be taking the opportunity to buy a few pots and push at people. I wouldn't tighten up TOO much if it's the former, because you definitely want to be using your stack while you have play in it, but with that history I'd say knowing your table image should be a massive consideration in how you're playing :)

[BAM]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack JEEEZ Guess where have you been? (slap's missed you)

[slapdash]

Re: MTT strategy with a big, but not dominant, stack

Assuming you're still on the same table' date=' I think knowing how you lost that big pot is going to be very important in determining how to play... [/quote'] Good point. I don't remember the hand in detail, but I bet something like 4xBB preflop in late position with with something like 88 or 99, got a smallish raise from the cutoff (as far as I remember) and called. Got a very non-threatening flop (three undercards, I think). Bet about half the pot, and got an all-in raise which I called. He had JJ and won. He started with something like 30% of my stack. (He wasn't the one who became big stack at the table.) Maybe I overplayed this, but he'd been playing very loose aggressive both before and after the flop, and I thought there was a fairly good chance I had the better hand. It's certainly possible that this hand gave the rest of the table the impression that I was a calling station, but actually I think I probably over-compensated after this and played too tight/passive.