Spikelad Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Hi i have recently started playing cash after playing tournaments for about 18 Months.I never thought it would be so difficult to play cash,when i play tournaments i can usually tell where i am in a hand and find decision making fairly straightforward. I am playing 6 max 2/4 pence,i have been playing for a couple of months and find that i am more confused now than when i started.What i find is that if i have a decent starting hand such as pocket aces,aceking suited or a big pair then if i raise say four or five times the bigblind then there are multiple callers. It is good to get called with weaker hands but the downside is that the raghands can hit and bust a decent hand.My mate has given me advice on this and i would like to hear some thoughts. What he is saying is that at microstakes people dont care about the money and basically just play crazy and i will never beat it.He tells me to move up in stakes where they play proper poker and forget microstakes. My thoughts on this are if i cant beat the lowest stake then i have no chance at a higher level and i would be easy prey to the better players. Any advice would be welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Cash is a more skillful post flop game than tournaments, because your stacks are typically deeper and thus the emphasis shifts from pre flop play (in tournaments) to post flop play (in cash). So in deeper stacked scenarios, your hole cards are less important and implied odds are more significant - this means that hands like Pocket Aces are not as far ahead in cash as they are in tournaments (the odds of them winning if you get to showdown are the same, but the implied odds you are offering are larger, so your punishment when you are outdrawn is larger - assuming your opponent only puts his stack in when he is ahead of pocket aces but folds post flop when the aces are ahead of him). I disagree strongly with the view of your mate. Microstakes may be harder to beat, because the percentage rake you pay is larger, but it should not be harder to beat because your opponents play worse and make more, and larger, mistakes. If you cannot work out counter strategy to poor, non thinking, players, then you will probably end up being crushed by good, thinking, players. I like your thinking far better than your mates thinking! (Lots of the best players claim to have done something like deposited $50 once, and never having deposited again!) If you find that you are getting multiple callers when you raise pre flop 5x with AA, then maybe try larger pre flop raises. This reduces the implied odds you are offering (you still want to be called by worse hands, but you want to get as much of your stack in as you can early in the hand, when you know you are ahead - if you could get all in preflop with AA, then you want to every time, regardless of the number of players in the hand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikelad Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Thanks for the reply Gaf,i will be honest and say that i never thought about the implied odds,i am now beginning to understand why players will make moves with inferior hands. I also have the view that it is up to me to work out how to beat this level before thinking of moving up.I was thinking about raising more and seeing what happens,thanks again mate for taking the time to reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThusPrider Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Microstakes is all about value-betting and extracting value. Dont bother with fancy bluffs or awkward play, general rule is just bet and generally when raised on a later street your opponent usually has it. I dont know what site you play at, but generally most players you find at microstakes knows what he/she is doing and isnt what your friend describes. moving up to 5/10 cents isnt going to be much of a difference between 2/4 cents, you'll still get the same type of player. As a very basic strategy i'd fold A9s and worse UTG, open all small pocket pairs UTG if over 100BBs deep and widen your range on the button up to T9o depending on what sort of player is in the BB. If there are limps in front of you, raise by an extra big blind and my personal suggestion for a basic opening raise is 3xBB and no bigger than that. Sometimes i raise to 2.5BB on the button as position is key in poker. In the blinds you'll mostly be folding your hands, AJo in the blind is a fold from a opening TAG UTG raise for me but anything else ill be calling with. Ill 3bet a polarised range against someone with a high fold23b and widen my 3bet range against someone with a low fold23bet. However if youve been 3bet by someone after you IP, id fold anything worse than AQs unless you've got a good read on your opponent. I'd continuation bet every flop, against 1 opponent with complete air if i had the betting lead as this is profitable in microstakes, depending on how wet the board is 1/2-3/4 should be enough. Of course for consistancy you'll be doing this with your value hands too. Against 2 or more opponents, unless I have a legitimate hand or there is a very dry flop against weak opponents i may cbet with air at microstakes. once you get onto the turn things should be pretty straight forward, i'd 2nd barrel strong draws OOP and raise any donk bet or second barrel. If i had air on the flop ill shut down unless an dry looking AK hits the board. If you have a hand of some value i'd just try to check it down for a cheap sd. Any decent sized bet and you should just fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikelad Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Thanks for the detailed reply thusprider,i have read quite a few guides to playing microstakes and basically they are saying what you have said.I dont know if maybe i am not playing enough volume but so far i am still struggling. I am enjoying playing at the moment but honestly i am really struggling to put my opponents on a hand range and so far i am a losing player.When i switch to fullring i find it a lot easier and maybe i just dont have the game for 6 max,however i will keep trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThusPrider Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Have you read Harrington cash online 6max? Its a really good book and if you take everything on board you should make profit at micros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikelad Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Hi thusprider as you were good enough to take the time to reply to me i feel i should let you know how i am getting on.I am slowly starting to turn things round and find that if i play one table i can get a read on my opponents and although i dont win every session i am showing a small profit now. I have the book you mentioned i have skim read it but will now read it properly,many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThusPrider Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Hi thusprider as you were good enough to take the time to reply to me i feel i should let you know how i am getting on.I am slowly starting to turn things round and find that if i play one table i can get a read on my opponents and although i dont win every session i am showing a small profit now. I have the book you mentioned i have skim read it but will now read it properly,many thanks. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettingfatter Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling What he is saying is that at microstakes people dont care about the money and basically just play crazy and i will never beat it.He tells me to move up in stakes where they play proper poker and forget microstakes. My thoughts on this are if i cant beat the lowest stake then i have no chance at a higher level and i would be easy prey to the better players. Any advice would be welcome. You are right he is wrong, basically. Buy Holdem Manger or Poker Tracker. Play lots, don't be afraid to play exploitable poker, e.g. vs someone who hardly ever folds - dont ever cbet as a bluff. The Micros are frustrating, you are going to have days where you are continually getting outdrawn in rediculous spots but these are outweighed by the days where ppl call/call/call with 3rd pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikelad Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Re: new player to cash who is struggling Thanks for the advice gettingfatter,you are right about the microstakes being frustrating but i am enjoying the challenge though to be honest some of the play leaves me baffled.However it is the case as you say that sometimes i can have an ace high flush and someone will call an all-in bet with third pair weak kicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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