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Kithanga

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  1. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary York 1.40 Judge 'N Jury Each way at 14-1 looks a solid proposition in a difficult opening race. He fared best of the front runners on his debut at Newbury, is best at 5f and has winning form in large fields. York 3.10 Acrostic to win at 11-2 for Luca Cumani and Kieren Fallon. This progressive gelding finished a good 2l 3rd over CD on his final outing last season and has the scope to keep on progressing this year.

  2. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary Final bet of the day goes in the 7.30 at Bath and I'm going each way on the proven CD performer Magroom. He's in form and should have the race run to suit. There are doubts as he's racing off his highest mark and will need some luck in running, but at 5-1 it's in the price.

  3. Re: Fintron's Flat Thread 2010

    3.45 York MANNICHLEN has been running well in defeat of late and although 6 lb higher than his last win over shorter, he shapes as if this trip could unlock further improvement. He has a draw towards the inside which should enable him to get a handy position in this large field. Advised bet: Mannichlen 16/1 Betfred 0.75 pt each-way (4 places, 1/4 odds)
    You've got a great bet there. I originally had him as my most likely winner, only to downgrade him and go for another selection. It's close between them and I must say that he's a much bigger price than he should be. I'm thinking more and more about backing more than one in a race in future and it'll be interesting to see if my each way bet turns out ok or whether I should have gone win on both. For the time being I've had a saver on him at 18-1 on betfair just so that I'm not too unhappy if he does win. Good luck, but not if he's in a photo with mine!:lol
  4. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary And the final bet tomorrow at York is in the 3.45 race, a handicap over 1m 4f. After more detailed analysis there's a few minor changes to my ratings, mainly on account of the likely pace of the race. It's still close but I feel that Mark Tompkins Omokoroa should go well under Darryll Holland at the forecast prices. A 4yo and therefore unexposed, this gelding was very much on the up towards the end of last season and posted a decent reappearance in a 10f race 4 weeks ago. I'm expecting him to come on for that run and go close tomorrow, each way at the best of the morning BOG prices. I'm expecting around 10-1 K

  5. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary York tomorrow, my favourite racecourse in the country and one of the Yorkshire tracks I used to visit on a regular basis in the early 90's when being on course was essential to beating the betting tax. My best ever day was at this venue (19 August 1993) when Kithanga rounded off an amazing day's punting for me by landing a £900-£400 bet under Ray Cochrane for my third winner of the day. Brilliant! If tomorrow's anywhere near as good I'll be well happy. As advised the other day the first bet goes in the 3.10 and it's Showcasing who I have 9-2 about. He's in to 4's now but still worth a punt if you're not on him yet. Others to follow later K

  6. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary And for the final time (becuase it takes too long to post):( here's my summary of the 3.45 at York on Wednesday. It's assuming no change in the expected 'good' going and is a first pass review so subject to some tweaking once I've delved a bit deeper. It's a 1m 4f Handicap with 20 runners and the ratings (with prices at 100% book) are: Veloso 22 8-1 Mannlichen 22 8-1 The Fonz 20 11-1 Chalice Welcome 19 14-1 Incendo 19 14-1 Itlaq 18 16-1 Camps Bay 18 16-1 Blue Nymph 17 20-1 Omokoroa 17 20-1 Just Lille 16 25-1 Persian Peril 16 25-1 Kames Park 16 25-1 Aleatricis 16 25-1 Deauville Flyer 16 25-1 Kingsdale Orion 16 25-1 Geneva Geyser 14 33-1 Silk Hall 13 40-1 Cluain Alainn 13 40-1 Track Record 11 66-1 Sirgarfieldsobers 9 100-1 Should be interesting to see how far out these prices are from the forecast and actual prices on offer. The one I favour at the moment is Mannlichen who looks primed for a good run but it looks quite an open race. K

  7. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary Duke of York Stakes, York Wednesday 6f Showcasing to win at 9-2 looks a solid bet in this assuming that, as forecast, the rain stays away. A rare 3yo runner in this race he has already shown himself to be Group class and looks a classy sprinter. A wide draw is a slight concern first time up as is his age, but the potential outweighs these slight doubts and he comes out joint best for me with Main Aim. That one never really recovered from ulcer problems last season and can be expected to give the selection a decent test. However at half the price he's not value. Ratings I have for this race and current odds are Showcasing 23 (9-2) Main Aim 23 (5-2) Starspangledbanner 21? (11-2) ? because of foreign form hard to evaluate Mullianmileanhour 20+ (8-1) + due to scope Sayif 20 (12-1) Inxile 20 (12-1) Anglezarke 18+ (20-1) + due to scope at 6f Judd Street 18 (25-1) Prime Defender 18 (25-1) Doncaster Rover 16 (20-1) Damien 15 (33-1) Edge Closer 15 (33-1) K

  8. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary I’ve added a little bit more detail on how I award a score for individual horses in response to the thread Russ started on Instant Handicapping. I hope it explains a little more and gives an insight into the considerations and the flexibility of the scoring that I use. I’ve tried to remember as much of my thinking about the race as possible. Hope it’s of use. Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

    Going back to the 2.50 at Ascot and the selection in the race, Good Again. Here’s some of the thinking behind her score.

    CDGD category: Things to consider for every runner in this category in this race are that we’re looking at a straight mile, circumstances that some of the distance winners may not have come across and with the stalls in the centre there’s no rail to help those on either flank making it open and galloping in nature. The course runs slightly downhill from the gate before rising, falling back slightly and climbing to about 1f out. That downhill start won’t help those that are difficult to settle, especially if drawn on one of the outside positions. Even more so if the early pace is poor. There’s no draw bias and no confirmed front runners. Seradim and Sarah Park drawn 4 and 14 are the mostly likely to provide the pace. There is light rain forecast according to the BBC weather but not until around 1pm so the good to firm going is likely to stay unchanged. The wind strength (low) and direction (slightly behind) won’t have much impact.

    Good Again has won twice on the straight course here, once at 6f and once at today’s trip of 1m both times in today’s going. She’s normally help up off the pace but is drawn in the widest stall 16 today and may not find it easy to tuck in off the likely pace. She raced more prominently in her 6f win (only 6 runners) as a 2yo and a couple of times since, but hasn’t been anywhere near as good with that racing style. She’s completely proven on this track, in the going and over the trip. I’m not too worried about the pace. (I find this factor more useful for understanding previous runs as your calculations can often be undone by a change of tactics if trying to predict pace too accurately pre race). The only slight doubt is her draw and whether she’ll be able to get enough cover. Therefore, I scored her 9 out of 10 in this category.

    FTI category: Early season so any fitness edge is an added benefit especially on such a galloping track. Those that have already shown themselves to be fit and well and those from stables in form are going to score higher. Decent prize money so unlikely any of the runners are using the race as a ‘warm up’ unless they have Group race engagements or aspirations.

    Good Again hasn’t run since the end of January when running poorly. She also picked up an injury in that race. She’d regained her form prior to that with a win at Pontefract in October. The trainer has 1 win and 2 placed from 7 runs in the last 14 days and has won this race for the last two seasons. He’s reported her as having recovered from injury and believes her to have a good chance in the race. She’d already had two runs last season and shown herself to be in good form prior to winning this race. There are doubts here and her preparation is nowhere near as good as it was when she won last season. She’s only 4yo and unexposed though and has 4 wins from just 11 starts, one of them in class 2. That’s the percentage and profile of a decent animal. Despite the positive trainer form & comments and her scope, her current wellbeing is unknown and she needs to prove that she’s over her problems. I rate her as 4+ out of 10 as I’ve given more weight to current form/fitness in this category today as described above and this is where she’s weakest.

    By the way, I score approximately as follows:

    1 and 2 – Proven inability / lack of suitability 3 – Strong doubts 4 – Doubts 5 – Slight doubts / untried but expected to be ok 6 – ok 7 – Good indicators 8 – Proven, some concerns 9 – Proven, slight concerns 10 – Fully proven no concerns.

    The plus indicates that I may be significantly wrong. For this example, the trainer has indicated she’s recovered and clearly targets the race so she may be in top form. A minus would normally apply to higher scores where I may have over rated an animal. A plus or minus can also be used for those that I don’t have enough information on because of too few runs, etc. It’s just a visual reminder for me to remind me when I’ve finished rating them all that there’s a doubt in my rating.

    I don’t think I need to bother with the final category as I guess that’s given enough of an overview. Looking back at the race she was ridden more prominently than usual on the outside of the pack and faded from 2f out. So both areas of concern probably led to her downfall in the end.

    K

  9. Re: Instant Handicapping It's a great question and for me there isn't an answer to it and I think that's quite important. The reason I group mine the way I do is so that I'm looking at influences that directly affect each other together. Within each category the importance of any one attribute will differ from race to race. In effect I'm actually weighting the scores within each category based on the demands of that race. If it's heavy going then the going will have more of an influence than usual on my score for the first category. If there's a draw bias, again I'll give it more weighting. Even things like likely pace of the race gets considered with it's impact on the horse over the course, distance and going. What I end up with is a view of the best horse at the conditions, the best horse from a form/fitness perspective and the best in at the weights/class, plus a total. If, for example, there was a strong draw bias I'd then give more weighting and a shorter price to the ones scoring high in that category, or if it's early season maybe the form/fitness category would carry more weight for me. It's all down to personal judgement for each individual race for me and I don't beleive you can set hard and fast rules. I'll try to post another race (pre race if time) in my thread shortly with more detail as I concentrated on explaining my approach to the whole race and didn't include much of the thought process on why I scored a horse the way I did. K

  10. Re: RussP's Specialisation - Big Field Handicaps (Flat)

    First update on figures this year..... 2010 Staked = 220.00pts Returned = 253.25pts Profit = +33.25pts Yield = +15.1% Bets = 22 Winners = 2 (9.1% s/r) Places (incl wins) = 8 (36.4% s/r) 2007-9 incl Staked = 2260.00pts Returned = 2945.96pts Profit = +685.96pts Yield = +30.4% Bets = 227 Winners = 29 (12.8% s/r) Places (incl wins) = 79 (34.8% s/r) So, it's been a slow start to 2010 with just 2 winners in Penitent in the Lincoln, and Just Bond in a race at Haydock. A case of what could have been too with Esprit De Midas being touched at 20's by a 50/1 rag!! On a poor run at present, with a winner & a 8/1 2nd sandwiched in between 9 losers. On a current unplaced run of 3 but hope to start to pick it up now. Reviewing the bets, there's been a few that really should never have been taken but I guess that's the constant learning curve. Here's to a new week and hopefully a change in fortunes:ok
    You can't argue with the numbers. That's a top performance mate. :clap
  11. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary Thanks Russ. It's hard to take sometimes when you narrow it down correctly but choose the wrong one, especially when it happens a few times on the run. Yesterday, 3 of the 4 races I backed in went to a shortlist horse. It's almost easier to have another one win sometimes! One thing I will be looking at in future is whether I back more than one animal instead of picking one each way as it may shorten the losing runs. I just want to be careful not to end up taking a smaller profit margin as a result. Food for thought though as the two races yesterday would have been winners at reasonable prices: 2.50 Alsace Lorraine at 6-1 and Good Again at 12-1 would work out at 7-2 if both were backed. 5.10 Secret Asset at 8-1, Noverre to Go at 12-1 and Medicean Man at 16-1 would work out at 3-1 if all three were backed. K

  12. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary And the 5.10 to explore some other aspects Secret Asset 7+7+8=22 (8-1) Zidane 8+5+7=20 (8-1) Noverre To Go 9+4+7=20 (12-1) Get Carter 7+9+4=20 (4-1) Medicean Man 5+7+7=19 (16-1) Rulesnregulations 9+4+6=19 (11-1) We Have a Dream 4+6+5=15 New Leyf 5+5+5=15 (second fav) Aye Aye Digby 5+4+5=14 Wildcat Wizard 4+5+5=14 Pusey Street Lady 4+4+5=13 Tagula Night 4+5+4=13 Dametime 4+5+3=12 Seamus Shindig 5+3+3=11 Safari Mischief 5+1+4=10 A much closer race than the 2.50 with the field more compact on the ratings and nothing being lower than 10, which is my 'little chance' category. My 20+ ratings are where the strong performers are and in this case it's the second favourite Secret Asset that leads 4 horses in this category. There are also two close behind on 19 points and therefore I'm considering those too as there's a nice gap to the remainder on 10-15 points. That leaves me with Secret Asset 8-1 Zidane 8-1 Noverre To Go 12-1 Get Carter 4-1 Medicean Man 16-1 Rulesnregulations 11-1 Get Carter is the first one out on two counts, it's price 4-1 and it's 4 rating under Class. Rulesnregulations and Noverre To Go both have a 4 rating in one category (anything under 5 means there's doubts) but they are decent prices mainly due to the very short price of New Leyf and We Have A Dream who are both rated 15 (average chance in my opinion) so I'm chossing from the 5 and it's now down to prices which I rate as: Secret Asset - top rated by two clear points 5-1 Zidane 8-1 Noverre To Go 8-1 Get Carter 8-1 Medicean Man 10-1 Rulesnregulations 10-1 The three that now stand out are Secret Asset, Noverre To Go and Medicean Man any of which can be backed at a price higher than my assessment. Given the lack of doubts about Secret Asset he's chosen as the bet at 8-1. Result 1. Medicean Man 10-1 2. Wilcat Wizard 18-1 3. Noverre To Go 12-1 Secret Asset is backed from 8-1 into 9-2 joint fav and runs well although a little free under her claiming jockey and is short headed into 4th. Medicean Man proves itself on an uphill track for the first time (that was the main factor in keeping it's course rating down) and looks on the up. Wildcat Wizard springs back to form and should go well next time on a more suitable track. Get Carter (as anticipated) struggles with the rise in class and Zidane runs poorly with conditions in it's favour. That one will score even lower than todays 5 rating on the Form category next time. K

  13. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary I thought, as there's no flat racing today, that I'd do a post on form study that hopefully some will find interesting. Here's how I went about the study of the 2.50 from Ascot yesterday. Firstly, a quick note about my methods. I have three main areas on which I concentrate. They are: 1. CDGD : Course, Distance, Going and Draw. Taking all these attributes together, I score the horse (1-10) on how well it is suited to the conditions under which it is competing. 2. FTI : Form, Trainer form, Improvement. This is looking at how well the horse and yard are performing andhow much improvement can be reasonably expected from the horse 3. CHWJ : Class, Handicap mark, Weight, Jockey. This focusses on the class of the race, how well handicapped the horse is and the amount of physical weight it is being asked to carry and whether or not the Jockey is a help or a hinderence. The scores are then added up and notes reviewed to find a good value selection that's got a good chance of winning by focussing mainly on the top three. I find using this method helps to ensure that I'm not just picking bigger priced horses all the time. Onto the 2.50 and these are my notes from yesterday. You'll see that it was a close decision and not a good result! Good Again 9,4,6 = 19. Excellent course (wins at Ascot & Ponte) and distance form. Concerns over current well being after suffering injury at Meydan. Slightly higher mark offset by good claimer. First City 6,6,4 = 16. Has some form on uphill courses and may be best suited by ground firmer than good. Good seasonal debut within a few lbs of best. Sarah Park 3,4,4 = 11. Doubts about ability on uphill tracks. Seasonal debut and little scope after 20 runs. Significantly higher mark than when last running well. Alsace Lorraine 8,7,8 = 23. Strong course form, distance possibly a little sharp. Likely to be fairly well primed up but seasonal debut and aiming for Group races later. Bags of scope. Has run well off similar handicap mark. Badait Alzaman 3,2,3 = 8. Poor on all counts Rafiqa 6,6,5 = 17. Ok runs at Salisbury and Ponte. 9 runs, so has scope. Handicap mark looks a little stiff. Blue Angel 7,7,5 = 19. Good course and distance run on debut and in form with scope after only 6 runs. Trainer going well. Concerns over handicap mark of 102. Arabian Mirage 3,2,3 = 8. Poor on all counts. Victoria Sponge 4,3,4 = 11. Concerns over suitability of course with best efforts at Epsom/Goodwood. Not in form and 6lbs higher than last win. Seradim 3,4,3 = 10. Poor on all counts. Flora Trevelyan 5,6,6 = 17. Won 5 runner at Sandown but slow time. Maybe 10f better. Seasonal debut and has scope. Every chance off current mark. Off Chance 7,8,5 = 20. Has won at Carlisle & Newcastle but lower class. In form & trainer flying. Up in class with last win from horses rated up to 79 (74-95 today) maybe outclassed. Clairvoyance 5,7,5 = 17. No turf or uphill form but never encountered it either. In form, respected trainer in this type of race, unexposed. Handicap mark reasonable. Charlotte Point 4,2,3 = 9. Little evidence of a chance on recent form and weights. So that gives us a points score (and best morning price) of: Alsace Lorraine 23 (11-2) Off Chance 20 (8-1) Good Again 19 (12-1) Blue Angel 19 (6-1) Rafiqa 17 (14-1) Clairvoyance 17 (8-1) Flora Trevelyan 17 (9-1) First City 16 (14-1) Sarah Park 11 Victoria Sponge 11 Seradim 10 Charlotte Point 9 Badait Alzaman 8 Arabian Mirage 8 As you can see I only noted prices for those above a rating of 15. It indicates that the favourite is strong and not at all badly priced at 11-2. In fact all the top three look well priced due to the shorter prices on Blue Angel, Clairvoyance and Flora Trevelyan all of which I have one significant doubt about. Rafiqa and First City look to be slightly over priced and offer a bit of value. Of the top three only one, the favourite has no significant doubts. Good Again has a current form/wellbeing doubt and Off Chance has a class doubt. There's very little (1 point) between the two and I therefore decide that, at the prices, Off Chance has to be removed, leaving me with Good Again and Alsace Lorraine. It now a question of whether I take a chance on the well being of Good Again at 12-1 or go for the near proven ability of the favourite at half the price. It's first time up over a distance that may be sharp enough and I decide to go for the tastier odds and tkae a chance with Good Again. Result: 1. Alsace Lorraine 6-1 2. First City 12-1 3. Off Chance 13-2 Good Again was backed in from 12-1 to 13-2 and finshed 10th, soon beaten from 2f out and her well being was her undoing. I now review the race against my scores to see how they performed and note any surprises like animals returning to form or (like Off Chance) one performing well in an area I had a concern, in this case the class which he coped with fine. Overall I was happy with the race. Yes, I top rated the winner and he was a backable price, but without as much margin as Good Again who looked as though he should have been about 8-1. Hope you find that useful. K

  14. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary Time to update the thread for the week and it's not been too bad really. I found three winners and one placed horse from 15 bets and a profit of 1.55 points. There were some real lowlights in the week though as it started better than it finished and a couple of heavily backed animals just didn't perform at all and came in last. Most upsetting of all was yesterday where previous selections that received less than perfect rides (Medicean Man and Destiny's Dream) went in and beat my selections. Still, I ended up in front and that's the main thing. That brings the totals to: Bets 50, wins 8, profit 8.725 A lower strike rate than required is keeping the profit down and I'll need to work on that for the next 50 bets. Somewhere around the 20% mark is what I'm after overall and I'll be working hard to achieve that, although a little luck in running would be appreciated too. K

  15. Re: New Year's Resolution Thread Hi Steve, Noticed you'd picked the same two at Ascot as my thread and then started reading the whole of yours from last year to present day. I've got to say that you've done really well to stick with it through the bad start and it's really paying dividends with some excellent results this year. :clap Keep up the good work! K

  16. Re: RussP's Specialisation - Flat Handicaps

    7.50 Warwick With Nightjar just declared a NR, there's now 13 lining up for this Class 4 handicap over 7f. It looks a really decent handicap with a hot fav in Cumani's charge, Brother Cha. So lightly raced, it could be open to any amount of improvement but 2/1 against hardened handicappers is not for me. Regeneration is the only other in single figures but it's record in this class makes it opposable for me. The one that will carry my support is: Satwa Laird (Bet365 BOG) - Hails from stable in form, 4 winners from his last 14 runners, and reunited with the champ for the 1st time since a super run at Ascot last term. Form looks really solid and is now racing off a good mark, is fit from a couple of recent runs and should go very close. Won its maiden easily in 2008 and, since then, has failed to win in handicap company but has gone close on several occasions, including 3 2nds. Since being dropped into this grade last summer, finished 4th of 11 at Salisbury, a head 2nd at Goodwood and then half a length 2nd at Ascot over a furlong further under todays jockey, the first 2 pulling clear. Followed that with 2 average runs in a higher grade but both of those were on the AW. The 2nd of which was its seasonal reappearance. Had its 2nd run of the season last week at Ascot when well supported. Finished 4L 5th of 10 but travelled really smoothly but didn't see out the trip. Drop in trip along with a 2lb drop in the weights and stronger handling should see this horse make its presence felt and 10/1 looks massively overpriced.
    I did my money on him last time out when I thought the Ascot mile would suit. I wasn't impressed with him off the bridle. Granted, he could have needed it and will benefit from having Ryan on board too tonight but I was concerned about 7f on a sharp track. Best of luck with him. Although I'll try to cheer him on for you I can't guarantee it. You know how it is with one you've backed last time out that failed. You really don't want to see it hose up next time at a double figure price.:lol
  17. Just had to comment on being knocked back for a £20 win bet on Splendorinthegrass in today's Victoria Cup and offered £5 to win. I just ended up putting in on with another bookie but it did make me wonder whether some of them really are interested at all in accepting bets. I never thought I'd be knocked back for such a small bet on a horse that's drifting in that type of race. After all it's a fiercly competitive 29 runner handicap not a selling handicap chase at Plumpton. It's pathetic and does nothing to attract people to the sport. K

  18. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary Madly competitive racing as usual for a Saturday but plenty of opportunities. First a typo to amend above as Splendorinthegrass hasn't run at Ascot and it should say has run well at a similar course (Newmarket). Ascot 2.50 The favourite looks strong but I think she'll be better for the run and will be being targetted for some Group races later on. One who will be primed up is last years winner Good Again who's an each way bet at 12-1 with two firms. She has excellent form on uphill tracks winning twice here and at Ponte and has every chance. First City and Rafiqa should also run well at ok prices. Ascot 5.10 Secret Asset comes here in top form with ground conditions more in her favour than at Newmarket on Sunday. She unexposed over 6f and at 7-1 is a good each way bet. Getcater is up significantly in class and it'll be interesting to see how he copes. Noverre To Go's stable form put me off that previous course winner although he could spring a surprise along with Rulesnregulations and they are dangers. Thirsk 7.05 Red Kestrel is wirth an each way wager at 20-1 in this. I was on Destiny's Dream at Newcastle the other day when she went close but I don't like her draw out wide in this as she usually needs cover. Bollin Greta looks one paced and better on a more galloping tack. The selection is well drawn and significantly lower in class here than when running some goodrace in class 2/3 company last season. There's a chance she was unsuited by the ground at Donny first time out and with the yard being in such good form is worth taking a chance with in this. Obviously he could just be on the downgrade but it's worth finding out because we won't get 20's again if he isn't K

  19. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary Hoping for a bit more luck in running today but didn't get it. First one backed down from 7-1 into 4-1 and got no sort of run through and the final one was also punted in from 9-2 to 3-1 and got boxed in. Going to hit back with Splendourinthegrass in the Ascot 3.25 tomorrow each way at 25-1. Unexposed and in form after a win on the all weather last time and has run well at this course. A strongly run 7f should be spot on and he should go well in a fiercly competitive heat. More tomorrow. K

  20. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary Bad day yesterday with a poorly researched selection and the other being backed from 8-1 into 7-2 and finishing last. Hopefully, I'll have more luck today with two at Chester. Will post bets at other meetings later if I get time. 4.30 Last Sovereign each way at 7-1. In good form, front runner who is drawn well. Good jockey booking stat's for trainer and proven in conditions. 5.05 Interdiamonds each way also at 7-1. In good form, consistent and as sole front runner expected to get an easy time up front. K

  21. Re: Kithanga's Flat 2010 diary She didn't have the pace to get to the front, something that I can now see having reviewed her form again. It was there in the form book all along just rushed my prep due to impending off time. Last minute, under researched bets. How many more times will I need to bet like that before I learn. :wall Surprised about the winner though as I backed him at Goodwood on Stewards cup day last season when he floundered on g/s ground. Either it wasn't that bad ground or he's on the up. Still, the next one will win and get me ahead for the day :hope

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