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KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase


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This is the first of the Key Races of the season. These threads will be used to discuss the race in detail in the lead up to the race itself & for anyone to comment on what they think will win or be placed. I only ask for common sense & reasoning to be added to your posts please. The Charlie Hall Chase is a Grade 2 National Hunt chase in the United Kingdom open to horses which are five-years-old or above. It is run over a distance of 3 miles and 1 furlong (5,029 metres) at Wetherby Racecourse, and it takes place annually in late October or early November. There are eighteen fences to be jumped in the race. It is the first significant three mile chase of the season in Great Britain, and it often sees the reappearance of horses who will later contest the Cheltenham Gold Cup and the Grand National. Prior to 1992 the race's distance was 3 miles and 100 yards. From 1992 to 1995 it was run over 3 miles and 110 yards.

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

Fantastic idea. Really like this thread. :clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap Unfortunately, I will be away for this race, but will watch the thread with interest until I go...
Thanks Alex. The idea i have is to then file each race in a sticky so anyone can go back & review each race in turn especially when it comes to Cheltenham
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

Even better idea :)
:ok News i have picked up - from Evan Williams interview in the Guardian Wetherby's Charlie Hall Chase, the £100,000 feature contest of the year at the Yorkshire track, is set to receive the go-ahead from the racing authorities despite the death of four horses at the track's first meeting of the new season last week and trainers are ready to support the under-fire racecourse. The British Horseracing Authority are still looking into the circumstances behind the fatalities, along with racecourse officials and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. However, initial investigations into the deaths have failed to identify a common factor and there are no plans to abandon the two-day meeting, due to start a week on Friday, or switch racing to an alternative venue. Evan Williams, who trained State Of Play to win the Charlie Hall 12 months ago, is keen to support the contest again despite the recent bad publicity for the track. "I wasn't at Wetherby on Wednesday, but from what I was watching on television it looked to me as if it was just a case of awful luck," he said. "If you go up to Wetherby at this stage of the season you know that you are going to get firm ground. The criticisms that some people have been giving the track is that conditions aren't consistent around the whole circuit, but I know that they will be doing their best to get things right. "I wouldn't have any hesitation in supporting the race again this year and I would think my most likely runner is Deep Purple. He loves fast ground. It can't be fast enough for him and he's a very decent horse."
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase From the Sporting life Jonjo O'Neill has drawn up an early plan for his stable mainstay Albertas Run. "He's doing well and we'll probably have a look at the Charlie Hall Chase at Wetherby," said the master of Jackdaws Castle. Albertas Run was the winner of the RSA Chase in 2008 but he struggled to cut the mustard in open company last season and did not manage to claim another victory. The eight-year-old did still produce one outstanding effort to finish eight lengths behind Kauto Star when second in the King George VI Chase. He was pulled-up on his most recent start at Punchestown in April.

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase Here are some stats of the winners since '88 Apart from a 33/1 [Durham Edition] and a 40/1 [ballybough Rasher] the other 19 winners have ranged from Odds-on Favs up to 14/1 . The vast majority [17 winners] have been returned at odds no higher than 8/1 . 7 Clear Favs have won from 21 [ average % ] but 4 were odds-on so beware odds-against Favs . Only 5 had a previous run that season. The majority of winners [16/21 ] had ran in high grade Non-Handicaps or Graded Handicaps LTO . 14 had won at least one of their last 3 outings . Age - 5x 7yo , 5x 8yo , 6x 9yo , 3x 10yo , 2x 11yo . Those 2 veterans were the 14/1 shot STRATH ROYAL and DURHAM EDITION , 40/1. So, at 1st glance , you would think that 7-9yo's hold sway BUT only one 7yo has won since '94 and 3 of the last 9 runnings have been won by a 10yo. I will be concentrating on 8-10 yo's. Trainers - Despite this being one of the highlights of the Northern NH season only 6 yards from that area [ Yorkshire + above ] have actually won it .

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

F5F53-3 Canada Street (IRE) 186 8 - J Howard Johnson 110 nag.gif
24-0025 Church Island (IRE) 20 10 - Michael Hourigan 144 nag.gif
3P/3P10- Darkness 210 10 - C R Egerton 151 nag.gif
1P2121 Deep Purple 196 8 - Evan Williams 151 nag.gif
1-U125F Gwanako (FR) 211 6 - P F Nicholls 155 nag.gif
2-21121 Just Amazing (IRE) 14 6 - P F Nicholls 140 nag.gif
141543 Mr Robert (IRE) 29 8 - Evan Williams 132 nag.gif
5550F2 Ollie Magern 191 11 - N A Twiston-Davies 149 nag.gif
20PP5-P Snoopy Loopy (IRE) 64 11 - P Bowen 154 nag.gif
03/2030- Tamarinbleu (FR) 218 9 - D E Pipe 161 nag.gif
3P-1161 What A Friend 195 6 - P F Nicholls
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase Strange seeing Deep Purple in there at the deep end on its debut over this trip, only previously raced over further than 17f, 3 times & no further than 20f before. The horse is also flat bred so to stay the trip is asking something of the horse. Will be good to see if Walsh chooses What a Friend although i don't expect him to run all 3 horses. What a friend flopped in the RSA chase behind Cooldine but i do think this is a very good horse with a future.

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase Deep Purple likes to front run, but with Tamarinbleu in the race I am sure he'll be just tracking him. What's Wetherby as a track actually? I have no observations. Does it suit front runners or those coming from the back? Or it can't be said?

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

Deep Purple likes to front run' date=' but with Tamarinbleu in the race I am sure he'll be just tracking him. What's Wetherby as a track actually? I have no observations. Does it suit front runners or those coming from the back? Or it can't be said?[/quote'] suits prominent horses, just look at the winners in previous years. certainly doesn't suit a plodder! Ollie Magern is also a front runner so this could be run at quite a pace if they get fast ground
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase I think horses like Deep Purple and Snoopy Loopy could be suited by Ollie and Tamarinbleu front running. They like to be prominent, but not leading. The thing is Deep Purple is an uknown over this trip and Snoopy Loopy seems to be rashly on the downgrade :unsure

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

suits prominent horses, just look at the winners in previous years. certainly doesn't suit a plodder! Ollie Magern is also a front runner so this could be run at quite a pace if they get fast ground
Suits front runners, but Tamarinbleu runs at such a break neck pace at times, I can't see him making all here, and can see him going in a huff if vying for the lead with Deep Purple and Ollie Magern. At a bigger price I am a big fan of Just Amazing, and think he is a horse going places, really on the upgrade and only 6.
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

There is also a class 1 chase at Ascot on the same day & Just Amazing/Tamarinbleu are entered up. Tamarinbleu prefers ascot & i can see pipe avoiding the wetherby race
I never even noticed that race, :$ Darkness, Mr Robert and What A Friend also entered.
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

:void(0)'>Fav :void(0)'>Name :goBk('95292430','','OC','B3','','-1')'>B390.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','BX','','-1')'>BX90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','BY','','-1')'>BY90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','FR','','-1')'>FR90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','SO','','-1')'>SO90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','VC','','-1')'>VC90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','BS','','-1')'>BS90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','PP','','-1')'>PP90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','SK','','-1')'>SK90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','SJ','','-1')'>SJ90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','EE','','-1')'>EE90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','LD','','-1')'>LD90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','CE','','-1')'>CE90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','WH','','-1')'>WH90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','IG','','-1')'>IG90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','BF','','-1')'>BF90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','WB','','-1')'>WB90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','BD','','-1')'>BD90.gif:goBk('95292430','','OC','SI','','-1')'>SI90.gif
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>What A Friend5/233/10
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Ollie Magern418/5
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Deep Purple44
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Tamarinbleu526/5
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Gwanako67
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Darkness1010
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Snoopy Loopy1211
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Church Island1213
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Just Amazing1413
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Mr Robert3333
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Canada Street40
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add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>What A Friend5/233/10
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Ollie Magern418/5
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Deep Purple44
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Tamarinbleu526/5
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Gwanako67
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Darkness1010
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Snoopy Loopy1211
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Church Island1213
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Just Amazing1413
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Mr Robert3333
add-bet-basket.gif:void(0)'>Canada Street40
Darkness has a 311331 record when fresh (57% win s/r, 100% place s/r). However it may not be as integeral to his chances as it appears as he has a 44% win s/r and 78% place s/r on all career starts. Deep Purple is 100111942. He started 16/1 or bigger for the 009 runs, ignoring those makes it 111142. Little to go on in this dept for Gwanako and What A Friend. Sample size too small really. Ollie Magerns inconsistent record improves drastically when you look at his fresh only runs (ignoring his 3 starts prior to joining NTD) - 21011U142. He was 100/1 when finishing "0". Similar story with Tamaribleu, although perhaps a less impressive improvement. Fresh runs - 1126P12 Ollie Magern really interests me FTO, although given he has dropped to an attractive 149 there must surely have been an easier option elsewhere? I suppose the chance to win this for a 3rd time was too big a possibility to pass up. I don't blame connections for that and I think they will be rewarded with a decent run, at least.
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase The going is currently GOOD/FIRM according to the Racing Post and checking the forecast up until Saturday on the BBC there doesn't appear to be an significant amount of rain due to hit the area . I would suggest that if that happens then the ground will be G/F on the day. With that in mind i've had a look at who wins on what going - SNOOPY LOOPY - Won 10 of which 6 has Soft in the going description and has never won on G/F. 2 of his 3 wins on Good were 11 + 18 secs slower than standard . GWANAKO - 4 wins from 8 won where Soft is in the going description , the other race he won in the UK was a hurdle race run nearly 12 secs above standard . DEEP PURPLE - Has won 3 on G/F and 5 on Good from 10 wins . CHURCH ISLAND - 6 out of 7 career wins have been where Soft is in the description and his single win on G/F was 11s slower than standard. DARKNESS - 4 out of 8 wins had Soft in the title and the other 4 were on Good and 2 of those were just above/below the standard . JUST AMAZING - Won 2 on G/F , once on Good and 2 on G/S . WHAT A FRIEND - Won a New Abb NHF on G/F which was over 17 secs slower than standard . His other 3 wins had Soft in the title . CANADA STREET - Won 2/3 on Soft going , once over C/D . Other was a Maiden Hurdle over 23 f here on G/F , but does the vast majority of his racing on easy going. MR ROBERT - Won twice on G/F and 3 times on Good . OLLIE MAGERN - 5 times a winner on G/F and 5 on Good . TAMARINDBEAU - Won 4 where Soft is in the description and 3 on Good . IMO if the going remains GOOD to FIRM then SNOOPY LOOPY , GWANAKO , CHURCH ISLAND , WHAT A FRIEND , CANADA STREET and TAMARINDBEAU are at a disadvantage . My main fear is that the race really cuts up and we are left with 3 or 4 runners in which case the will probably be a distinct lack of pace .

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase Taken from the Sporting Life site , Peter Bowen is bullish about SNOOPY LOOPY's chance on Saturday - Trainer Peter Bowen is looking forward to seeing how Snoopy Loopy gets on in Saturday's bet365 Charlie Hall Chase at Wetherby. The 11-year-old was third behind State Of Play and Ollie Magern in the same race last season before going on to give his trainer the greatest success of his career when landing the Grade One Betfair Chase at Haydock at the end of November. Just a week after that victory, Snoopy Loopy ran another superb race to come home third under top-weight in Newbury' Hennessy Gold Cup and was a half-length second to Monet's Garden in the Grade Two Peterborough Chase at Huntingdon 12 days later. He was pulled up when conceding upwards of 19lb to his rivals on his seasonal return in a handicap chase at Ffos Las on August 28, but Pembrokeshire-based Bowen believes that his stable star is primed to run a big race in the bet365 Charlie Hall Chase, for which he is a 12/1 chance with the race sponsor. Bowen revealed: "Snoopy Loopy is definitely heading to Wetherby for the bet365 Charlie Hall Chase. He's in very, very good form at the moment and I am very pleased with him. "We always planned to give him a little break after Ffos Las and you can forget that run - he lost it from the start because he was giving most of the field almost two stone. He worked on Tuesday morning and we are over the moon with him at the moment. "It's fair to say that his form did tail off a bit towards the end of last season but you only need to see how many races he had. He's back in really good form now and it gives us a little bit more encouragement when you see an 11-year-old like Monet's Garden running so well at Aintree over the weekend. "He won't mind the ground - he was third in the same race 12 months ago - and he goes to Wetherby in great order. We will be aiming at some of the top staying chases again this season and I'm hopeful that he can run well on Saturday." The going at Wetherby is currently good to firm, good in places (Watering). Chief Executive and Clerk of the Course, Jonjo Sanderson, commented on Tuesdya afternoon: "We have had a very damp day today, which wouldn't have dried the track at all and we have applied 15mm to the entire track today. "The forecast is not indicating that we will receive any rain until Saturday morning at the latest and so we will continue to water the home bend and home straight on Wednesday and Thursday. However, despite the lack of rain the forecast is not for particularly drying weather."

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase Just been listening to Evan Williams (deep purple) on timeform radio, Some quotes of interest "Fast ground will be right up Deep Purples street" "Wont be far off 110% fit" "looks sure to get a good gallop which he needs he either stays or he doesn't" Overall he sounded quite bullish and was very happy with his horse only slight negative he sounded was over weather he will stay or not.

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

Just been listening to Evan Williams (deep purple) on timeform radio, Some quotes of interest "Fast ground will be right up Deep Purples street" "Wont be far off 110% fit" "looks sure to get a good gallop which he needs he either stays or he doesn't" Overall he sounded quite bullish and was very happy with his horse only slight negative he sounded was over weather he will stay or not.
i think its fairly obvious that the horse has all in its favour except the trip. Thats an unknown for us all & Ollie Magern will no doubt out stay everything to win for a 3rd time!!
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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase Took a look at HALLINGS progeny results over Jumps [ sire of DEEP PURPLE] and the top 10 prize winners had/have NEVER won beyond 20f ! Indeed the majority are 2 milers . Taking this will be a hard task for William's entry even with no other obvious negative's .

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Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase

Took a look at HALLINGS progeny results over Jumps [ sire of DEEP PURPLE] and the top 10 prize winners had/have NEVER won beyond 20f ! Indeed the majority are 2 milers . Taking this will be a hard task for William's entry even with no other obvious negative's .
Totally agree, my post on 26/10 stated doubts about the trip. If Pipe can get Tamarinbleu to switch off, i think it could be ok on this ground. May still go to Ascot where it has won over shorter but on much softer ground!
26-10-2009 21:53
bowles10Re: KEY RACE: Wetherby Sat 31st October - CHARLIE HALL chase
Strange seeing Deep Purple in there at the deep end on its debut over this trip, only previously raced over further than 17f, 3 times & no further than 20f before. The horse is also flat bred so to stay the trip is asking something of the horse. Will be good to see if Walsh chooses What a Friend although i don't expect him to run all 3 horses. What a friend flopped in the RSA chase behind Cooldine but i do think this is a very good horse with a future.
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