GaF Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 We're a couple of weeks into the challenge now, so you've a good idea how it works, so now is a good time for us to get feedback and find out what should be changed/improved the next time this (hopefully) runs. What have you liked about the format? More importantly, what have you not liked about the format? What would you have done differently if you had set it up? How's the schedule been? What do you think of the variety of games? What about the start times? etc...... I dont mind negative feedback (I'll learn most from the negative comments!), just try and keep it constructive please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback 1 or 2 hours later starting times would be great, some of us have kids etc. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback 1 or 2 hours later starting times would be great' date=' some of us have kids etc. :ok[/quote'] The counter to that will be "some of us have to be up for work in the morning". This is why I've tried to mix the starting times up. Maybe there could be a few more later ones? (but that's what I'll learn from the opinions expressed :ok) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldric Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback As you have requested the tournaments to show up 24 hours before the start, it would be good if betfair had a 'small' guarantee on some of the tournaments. The turnout has been low in most of the tournaments and if the guarantee was there then Im sure more would have played. This is obviously something outwith your control, but it would probably work out well for BF as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback I can't think of many negatives - maybe that the Schedule wasn't readily available for the first week - but now its got a Sticky then thats OK. Presumably some'll moan about the points not being easy to follow - the VPoints on their STT challenge where updated on an almost daily basis - but personally the points race hasn't bothered our Team. I like that they aren't PL Exclusive games, and that 1 Rep per game gives everyone a fair chance ( RobDroy for example). We are a little restricted by the variants available, but thats out of yuor hands - although I wouldn't welcome Super Turbo or Turbos coming into the equation as the skill factor (IMO) reduces. So well done to GaF and JT so far.. :clap I can't quite work out how exactly the 2nd Part i.e staking will go without problems. I can just see problems with people not being registered when they expect to be ?? Also the distribution of funds at the end - with JT taking out his cut could prove tricky - ideally the 2 teams ought to have a 'Team Wallet' that all the Winnings/Stakes could come out of and go into and then be paid into the individuals accounts when all the profits losses have been finalised. Although I doubt thats feasible ..... :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback As you have requested the tournaments to show up 24 hours before the start, it would be good if betfair had a 'small' guarantee on some of the tournaments. The turnout has been low in most of the tournaments and if the guarantee was there then Im sure more would have played. This is obviously something outwith your control, but it would probably work out well for BF as well. The problem is that if the guarantees aren't met, then it increases the cost of the promo for Betfair. If there's more money going into the promo, I'd rather see it go to PLrs :tongue2 However, I agree, it would be nice if the fields were a little larger! Do we want to go for less variety, more standard stacks/blinds to try and get more non PL'rs playing? (the standard games tend to get about 70 players or so I think :unsure As soon as it's deep stacked or higher buy in, that seems to fall to 20 or so....) 42 in tonights PLO tourney isnt too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback The problem is that if the guarantees aren't met, then it increases the cost of the promo for Betfair. If there's more money going into the promo, I'd rather see it go to PLrs :tongue2 However, I agree, it would be nice if the fields were a little larger! Do we want to go for less variety, more standard stacks/blinds to try and get more non PL'rs playing? (the standard games tend to get about 70 players or so I think :unsure As soon as it's deep stacked or higher buy in, that seems to fall to 20 or so....) 42 in tonights PLO tourney isnt too bad. Outside of our Comp, I still can't understand why Betfair don't take our schedule and introduce its as Standard, if there are no guarantees what can they lose. I much rather play a $5 tourney with 50-80 runners without guarantee, but paying a top 9 finish, than spend 5 hours wading through a field of 3,000 on Stars for a mid 100 position and $9 return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldric Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback The problem is that if the guarantees aren't met, then it increases the cost of the promo for Betfair. If there's more money going into the promo, I'd rather see it go to PLrs :tongue2 However, I agree, it would be nice if the fields were a little larger! Do we want to go for less variety, more standard stacks/blinds to try and get more non PL'rs playing? (the standard games tend to get about 70 players or so I think :unsure As soon as it's deep stacked or higher buy in, that seems to fall to 20 or so....) 42 in tonights PLO tourney isnt too bad. The standard games are a joke on betfair, you would have to be mad to play most of them with the 2 minute or 5 minute blinds. So no, I don't think we should be playing any of these. The only way I can think of getting the numbers up is to offer the guarantee... im sure it would be covered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback Cheers VoJ :ok With regards to the points - I'm disappointed we haven't been able to give more frequent updates (erm...any updates) - that wasn't the plan. Unfortunately the report from Betfair hasnt worked so far and they are having to redo it. Once the report has been set up and is working, then, as I understand it, they will be able to run it frequently and we will be able to get the frequent updates. :ok I agree with respect to Turbos, which is why you havent seen any ;) If weight of opinion were to be against me (us) on that though, I would go with the majority view :ok I'll be honest - I dont know how the second part will work in any detail at the moment. My expectation is that the winning teams will be required to provide schedules in advance of who plays and when and Betfair will put them in. This will require teams to plan ahead. At the end of the month Betfair will withdraw the necessary winnings from the players accounts (or sooner if there is a big win). I would expect that I can adjust how much betfair take from (or give to) each player in the team (to get to the same overall total) to allow the team to split winnings as they wish. I would view a better option to players planning ahead and being put in by Betfair to be for players to buy themselves in and then be refunded afterwards by Betfair. This will give the team more flexibility (but I imagine would be opposed as it would need players to lay out the buy in in advance). Maybe we could give each player/team the choice of either method :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback More PLO ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback More PLO ;) Even though you didn't enjoy it? :tongue2 My view is that 1 PLO game a week is enough - however as I've said, I'll be guided by weight of opinion :ok (It wont change for this one, but could for future events) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback Think a 7.30pm-9.00pm start would cover both areas-Those who go to bed early and those that prefer a later start,however i see the need to accomodate a betfair scheduled tournament. Seeing how it has gone would suggest 2 tournaments a day as an option one between 6.30-8.pm and one between 8-10pm highest cash position for the team to count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback Think a 7.30pm-9.00pm start would cover both areas-Those who go to bed early and those that prefer a later start,however i see the need to accomodate a betfair scheduled tournament. Seeing how it has gone would suggest 2 tournaments a day as an option one between 6.30-8.pm and one between 8-10pm highest cash position for the team to count? Two games a day:unsure I can see that would cause an lot of confusion and disagreement - and be a bugger to administrate.- poor old RobDroy would be multi tabling 2 tourneys and 4 cash games to rack up his boost points And there aren't enough Betfair Scheduled tourneys to give a different game each night of the week. Plus its twice as expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback Wasn't neccesarily thinking of this time round-and would be based on most teams having 3+ players, administration shouldn't be a problem with Gaf on board:tongue2 Boost points wouldn't be any different:unsure Two games a day:unsure I can see that would cause an lot of confusion and disagreement - and be a bugger to administrate.- poor old RobDroy would be multi tabling 2 tourneys and 4 cash games to rack up his boost points Plus its twice as expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback I would like to be able to register for the games at the earliest opportunity rather than just 1 hr before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback The game choices are good - a deepstack, a short handed, a PLO, a HU etc. Not a fan of the buy-ins personally. 5x $5, 1x$10 and 1x$20 is too low I think. At least swop one of the fiver ones for something higher? Another $10 or $20 tourn. The $22 3k deepstack is a great tournament for example. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback With regards to the buy ins - they've been set to keep it within about $300 over the month - I was worried that even that was too high with respect to what a lot of PLrs are used to - overall I wanted it to be as inclusive to as wide a range of PLrs as possible - I'd be worried that higher buy ins would start to exclude some :unsure I think twice a night will become a bit much for some - I'd rather run it once a night for 2 months than twice a night for 1 month :unsure I've also been trying to set it up in a format to encourage more, and smaller teams (with larger teams for those who wish to be involved, but cannot make the commitment required) - if twice a night makes it tougher for smaller teams, then it works against a lot of the way the tournaments been set up. I've requested that games be shown in the lobby 24 hours before the start. I havent made any requests with regards to registration time - I'll see what happens with the next week having it 24 hours in advance, with a view to opening registration earlier the following week (if that isn't done anyway this week) :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback With regards to the buy ins - they've been set to keep it within about $300 over the month - I was worried that even that was too high with respect to what a lot of PLrs are used to - overall I wanted it to be as inclusive to as wide a range of PLrs as possible - I'd be worried that higher buy ins would start to exclude some :unsure But what about excluding those that think they are too low? Of course I understand what you're saying but the schedule should suit ALL, surely? With 5x $5, 1x$10 and 1x$20 it's lopsided and biased towards low buy-in MTT's. I think every team has a mix of players that prefer different buy-ins. If it was more balanced it would still work, the team mates would sort it amongst themselves. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback But what about excluding those that think they are too low? Fair enough :ok I do think $10 average stakes is actually already a step up from most PL promos (and $20 is unheard of!) - however happy to go with the flow - if the consensus is for higher stakes, then we'll increase the stakes :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback It's a month long competition but I think the Tourney is going to be settled by who makes the most money on a Sunday due to the $20 buy in!:\ I'd have liked to see the same Tourney being used for a month with a $10 buy in if the $300 per month restriction needs to be retained.......I think dave won $88 last night with 44 runners but the Sunday victor picked up $200 with only 20 entrants! It's still an enjoyable test run but it has to be said that Betfair is pretty crap as a poker site......although I just picked up a 3rd place in an Omaha Tourney on there!:lol:lol Great admin as usual, GaF!:clap:clap:clap TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback That's a good point actually - if the difference between the buy ins is too large, then it makes the lower buy in games meaningless - I think it would need a different scoring method..... I dont think we're quite at the point where the Sunday night game is everything, but it definitely has huge significance - I suppose adding a $22 tourney in place of a $5 tourney will reduce the oversignificance on the Sunday night game - but does it diminish the other $5 games further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback What if there were two seperate leagues - one low stakes and one higher stakes? With just 1 prize for each league? Seprate teams in each league - players could if they wanted enter one or both.... (I'll run one of them and Guppie can do the other :tongue2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback It's still an enjoyable test run but it has to be said that Betfair is pretty crap as a poker site......although I just picked up a 3rd place in an Omaha Tourney on there!:lol:lol Does that confirm or dis-prove that Betfair is Crap as a Poker SIte :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback What if there were two seperate leagues - one low stakes and one higher stakes? With just 1 prize for each league? Seprate teams in each league - players could if they wanted enter one or both.... (I'll run one of them and Guppie can do the other :tongue2) That sounds good - keep them seperate. But allow dual entry (..oh missus:eek) if they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback Does that confirm or dis-prove that Betfair is Crap as a Poker SIte :tongue2 Confirms!:ok TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldric Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback What if there were two seperate leagues - one low stakes and one higher stakes? With just 1 prize for each league? Seprate teams in each league - players could if they wanted enter one or both.... (I'll run one of them and Guppie can do the other :tongue2) That seems like a good idea :ok I take it if you entered 2 teams in to both you would have to earn 2 boosts? 6k betfair points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback The boost structure wont necessarily be the same next time (and wont necessarily be different :tongue2) Not sure how we'd work it - but gut feel is that a player would need to earn his Betfair Points seperately for each league (and couldnt just double count his points). It would probably make some sense for the higher stakes players to have a slightly higher target and the low stakes players to have a slightly lower target :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback Would we have enough interest to sustain both a lower and higher stakes challenge at the same time? :unsure An alternative would be to do something like weighting the winnings according to buy-in: e.g., (2 x $20 tourney winnings) + (3 x $10 tourney winnings) + (4 x $5 tourney winnings), so that the results of $20 tourneys weren't so dominant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback An alternative would be to do something like weighting the winnings according to buy-in: e.g., (2 x $20 tourney winnings) + (3 x $10 tourney winnings) + (4 x $5 tourney winnings), so that the results of $20 tourneys weren't so dominant. I love the simplicity of the current scoring - I think it makes it very visible to all - I'd be relucatant to lose that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betfair Team Challenge - Feedback I love the simplicity of the current scoring - I think it makes it very visible to all - I'd be relucatant to lose that..... I'm don't wholly agree that the $20 tourneys are the totally significant to the overall result. Kent have only cashed twice - both in $5 Buy-Ins and they are only $20 behind us (we won the $20 buy-in) and we've cashed 3 times. ($20 including Boost Points) IMO as most important a factor is finishing position - which is how it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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