Badly played and Lucky?

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? yeah i think you played it about as well as you could. a lot of players would have gone bust on the riverd,you recognised that he wouldnt likely call a bet with a worse hand than yours(except maybe qs/ks) and it wasnt worth risking your tourney on. be happy there are players playing as badly as he did during the hand ,over time he's gonna give you a lot of his chips;)

[RuleBritannia]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? Hi Guys, Ive played a hand last night which has eerie similarities to the very 1st hand in this thread. Did I play this one any better than the one posted at the start of the thread? Very few hands been played so far, but the general feel already is that everyone is playing tight as fcuk, and to get any chips in the middle is going to take either A, an extraordinary hand or B, slow playing pre-flop, seeing the flop and hoping for the best in the flop. Ive done this from SB, called pre-flop as I have 6d 8d, and I seem to do very well when I have hands like this, so Ive called just to see the flop knowing unless BB has something special he will just check anyway. When the flop comes, Im on a flush draw but not wanting to expose myself as such, as any bets I feel will cause them just to fold, so I check and we see the turn. Jackpot, Ive hit the flush and now have a straight flush draw as well.(and a straight). I put a minimum bet in as a feeler, to see if anyone wants to play. Sure enough, one calls, and other raises 4x my bet. Ive not got him on 2 diamonds, and am only wary of him having a high diamond and looking to draw another one on the river. My hand is too good to throw away though, so I decide if he's looking to draw another diamond, then he's paying to do so. We re-raise each other and then. RIVER 9d BINGO!! Hit the straight flush (my 2nd straight flush in as many weeks#)!! Turns out he was sitting on a straight and was clearly more focused on that than thinking about me possibly having two diamond cards pre flop. Either that or he had me as bluffing. Anyways, thats an insight as to WHY I played the hand this way. Opinions please? Feel free to use comparison to 1st hand on this thread as its very similar.

[1907zico]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? Well preflop was okay I think, two players before limping in and you almost see a free flop. As your oppenents only limped in pre-flop they obviously had either low pocketpairs or some speculative hands. The flop was nice for you with the flush draw and the check made cregy77 think you are waiting for some good hand. Since he had the flush draw he also checked on the flop, at this stage I would rate him on either straigth or flush draw. The turn is nice, you hit your flush and you get action. You hold two diamonds on your hand and you see 3 of them infront of you so that cregy might not hold two diamonds aswell. And just have a look at what diamond cards where given out already, he either had to have some high cards (AQ,AK,A2 diamonds) which does not fit to his preflop and flop actions. So at this stage he obviously holds a straight draw hand or a small pocketpair waiting for another card to hit. Your small bet is perfect on the turn, good players would probably read that you could have a good hand and want a raise here, but cregy had the bad luck to hit the straigth and he didnt rate you on a flush here. He pays you off nicely, bad move from him though, but good played from you (IMO :tongue2). :ok

[GaF]

Re: Badly played and Lucky?

Feel free to use comparison to 1st hand on this thread as its very similar.

Not sure I agree with that :unsure. So I'm going to ignore the hand and highlight what I think are the significant differences (in no particular order) between the two hands - in poker seemingly small differences in a hand can make a massive difference to the dynamic of a hand (and the way you should play it) - highlighting the differences will hopefully make you more aware of them and more likely to consider them in the future :ok

	Hand 1	Last Hand
Position	Button (best)	Small Blind (worst)
Action before you	None	2 limpers
Hand pre flop	high SC	Mid 1 gap SC
Tournament stage	In the money	Just started
Flop Hand	Top Pair + Str8 Flush draw	Flush draw
Turn Hand	Top Pair + Str8 Flush draw	Made Flush and inside str8 flush draw
River hand	Dont care - all money is in	Dont care - all money is in

The only real similarity is that you river the straight flush - that is irrelevent to your decisions though as all the money is in the middle before this happens - at the time you make your decisions I believe the tqo hands are quite different.

[RuleBritannia]

Re: Badly played and Lucky?

Not sure I agree with that :unsure. So I'm going to ignore the hand and highlight what I think are the significant differences (in no particular order) between the two hands - in poker seemingly small differences in a hand can make a massive difference to the dynamic of a hand (and the way you should play it) - highlighting the differences will hopefully make you more aware of them and more likely to consider them in the future :ok

	Hand 1	Last Hand
Position	Button (best)	Small Blind (worst)
Action before you	None	2 limpers
Hand pre flop	high SC	Mid 1 gap SC
Tournament stage	In the money	Just started
Flop Hand	Top Pair + Str8 Flush draw	Flush draw
Turn Hand	Top Pair + Str8 Flush draw	Made Flush and inside str8 flush draw
River hand	Dont care - all money is in	Dont care - all money is in

The only real similarity is that you river the straight flush - that is irrelevent to your decisions though as all the money is in the middle before this happens - at the time you make your decisions I believe the tqo hands are quite different.

Makes sense what you are saying mate about the differences and I appreciate the detail you go into and the time you take to analyse the plays. :ok Thanks. With regards to the hand, other than the 10 chip call pre-flop, I didnt put any chips in when I was behind. (All very good looking at that in hindsight). Do you think the actual hand was played all right, or would you not have been involved in it with 6,8? (Lets forget its a 10c tournament, because my freerolls/10c tournaments are your whatever $tournaments).

[GaF]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? Despite being out of position, I dont mind you putting 10 chips in with 86s because you have two limpers and because you have large implied odds (the amount you can win if you hit a big hand - basically stack sizes as a multiple of what you have to put in and the chances of your opponents paying you off). No other observations on the hand - think it's fine - but only because of the opponents and standard of the opposition - if they had been players I'd respect more, I wouldnt have put my stack in on the turn. If I were to be nit picking your comments, then I'd pick up on this:

Very few hands been played so far, but the general feel already is that everyone is playing tight as fcuk, and to get any chips in the middle is going to take either A, an extraordinary hand or B, slow playing pre-flop, seeing the flop and hoping for the best in the flop.

At this level - sorry - I simply do not believe it - players cannot play tight at this level - I would suggest that you will NEVER find a table of Nits with a 10c buy in. It may have been tighter than the games you are used to (10c giveaway freerolls?) but in general poker terms, I cant believe it was tight.... (If you really believe I'm wrong, you could send me the hand history for this game and I'll put it in pokertacker and have a look.....)

[RuleBritannia]

Re: Badly played and Lucky?

Despite being out of position, I dont mind you putting 10 chips in with 86s because you have two limpers and because you have large implied odds (the amount you can win if you hit a big hand - basically stack sizes as a multiple of what you have to put in and the chances of your opponents paying you off). No other observations on the hand - think it's fine - but only because of the opponents and standard of the opposition - if they had been players I'd respect more, I wouldnt have put my stack in on the turn. If I were to be nit picking your comments, then I'd pick up on this: At this level - sorry - I simply do not believe it - players cannot play tight at this level - I would suggest that you will NEVER find a table of Nits with a 10c buy in. It may have been tighter than the games you are used to (10c giveaway freerolls?) but in general poker terms, I cant believe it was tight.... (If you really believe I'm wrong, you could send me the hand history for this game and I'll put it in pokertacker and have a look.....)

How do I do send the history? (I dont believe you are wrong btw, would just be interesting to find out how far wide of the mark I am). and just to add, yes much tighter than Im used to (not a few going all in preflop in the freerolls). Thanks again for your honest input mate.

[GaF]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? You should find a file from the game at C:\poker\BlueSquare Poker\History - if you're not sure which file it is, then you can search the files for the hand number. Best email address to send it to will be: pl dot benchmarking at googlemail dot com

[RuleBritannia]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? Just played this hand and took some abuse from the guy I put out. Apparently I had no right to even call with AQ Full Tilt Poker Game #11734464858: $100 United Kingdom Freeroll (87904941), Table 83 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:58:46 ET - 2009/04/17 Seat 1: ruleb (5,400) Seat 2: 8924A53 (1,285), is sitting out Seat 3: warrensoul (1,415), is sitting out Seat 4: see aitch (4,380) Seat 5: Thurny Loyal (2,400) Seat 6: RO88O (1,350), is sitting out Seat 7: mad para (3,165) Seat 8: delboy11 (2,870) Seat 9: janey07 (1,335), is sitting out Thurny Loyal posts the small blind of 25 RO88O posts the big blind of 50 The button is in seat #4 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to ruleb [Ah Qc] mad para raises to 100 delboy11 calls 100 janey07 folds ruleb has 15 seconds left to act ruleb raises to 200 8924A53 folds warrensoul folds see aitch folds Thurny Loyal calls 175 RO88O folds mad para calls 100 delboy11 calls 100 *** FLOP *** [5c As Qs] Thurny Loyal checks mad para bets 2,965, and is all in delboy11 folds ruleb calls 2,965 Thurny Loyal folds mad para shows [8s 8c] ruleb shows [Ah Qc] *** TURN *** [5c As Qs] [Kh] *** RIVER *** [5c As Qs Kh] [4d] mad para shows a pair of Eights ruleb shows two pair, Aces and Queens ruleb wins the pot (6,780) with two pair, Aces and Queens mad para stands up *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 6,780 | Rake 0 Board: [5c As Qs Kh 4d] Seat 1: ruleb showed [Ah Qc] and won (6,780) with two pair, Aces and Queens Seat 2: 8924A53 didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: warrensoul didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: see aitch (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: Thurny Loyal (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 6: RO88O (big blind) folded before the Flop Seat 7: mad para showed [8s 8c] and lost with a pair of Eights Seat 8: delboy11 folded on the Flop Seat 9: janey07 didn't bet (folded) What do you guys think?

[GaF]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? Dont worry about what your opponents think - just take their chips. Those most active in the chat box, usually know the least - you dont want to take advice from those that offer it, especially after they lose the hand ;)

[RuleBritannia]

Re: Badly played and Lucky?

Dont worry about what your opponents think - just take their chips. Those most active in the chat box, usually know the least - you dont want to take advice from those that offer it, especially after they lose the hand ;)

Thanks mate, Bearing that in mind, I ignored/ didnt look at the Chat Box after this one. :rollin Full Tilt Poker Game #11735229323: $100 United Kingdom Freeroll (87904941), Table 83 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:48:48 ET - 2009/04/17 Seat 1: ruleb (13,770) Seat 2: 8924A53 (375), is sitting out Seat 3: warrensoul (530), is sitting out Seat 4: Joshua181 (900), is sitting out Seat 5: Thurny Loyal (3,250) Seat 6: RO88O (305), is sitting out Seat 7: nath163 (6,900) Seat 8: delboy11 (6,035) Seat 9: DominatorVI (8,300) RO88O posts the small blind of 60 nath163 posts the big blind of 120 The button is in seat #5 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to ruleb [Qc Ks] delboy11 raises to 240 DominatorVI raises to 900 ruleb has 15 seconds left to act ruleb calls 900 8924A53 folds warrensoul folds Joshua181 folds Thurny Loyal folds RO88O folds nath163 folds delboy11 raises to 1,560 DominatorVI calls 660 ruleb calls 660 *** FLOP *** [2d Qh 6h] delboy11 bets 4,475, and is all in DominatorVI raises to 6,740, and is all in ruleb calls 6,740 DominatorVI shows [Ah Ad] ruleb shows [Qc Ks] delboy11 shows [Th Td] *** TURN *** [2d Qh 6h] [Jd] *** RIVER *** [2d Qh 6h Jd] [Kc] DominatorVI shows a pair of Aces ruleb shows two pair, Kings and Queens ruleb wins the side pot (4,530) with two pair, Kings and Queens delboy11 shows a pair of Tens ruleb wins the main pot (18,285) with two pair, Kings and Queens delboy11 stands up DominatorVI stands up *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 22,815 Main pot 18,285. Side pot 4,530. | Rake 0 Board: [2d Qh 6h Jd Kc] Seat 1: ruleb showed [Qc Ks] and won (22,815) with two pair, Kings and Queens Seat 2: 8924A53 didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: warrensoul didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: Joshua181 didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: Thurny Loyal (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: RO88O (small blind) folded before the Flop Seat 7: nath163 (big blind) folded before the Flop Seat 8: delboy11 showed [Th Td] and lost with a pair of Tens Seat 9: DominatorVI showed [Ah Ad] and lost with a pair of Aces

[ELCAKER]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? THAT is one of the great hands!!! BEhind at every stage until the river.. Slightly dodgy first call :sad Slightly dody 2nd call.....;) Another caller tells you what you know - namely that you are way behind :spank :hope runner runner to sccop a MASSIVE pot :ok:ok and eliminate 2 players. :nana:nana Tell me that you turned such good fortune into a sizeable chunk.....:lol:lol

[RuleBritannia]

Re: Badly played and Lucky?

THAT is one of the great hands!!! BEhind at every stage until the river.. Slightly dodgy first call :sad Slightly dody 2nd call.....;) Another caller tells you what you know - namely that you are way behind :spank :hope runner runner to sccop a MASSIVE pot :ok:ok and eliminate 2 players. :nana:nana Tell me that you turned such good fortune into a sizeable chunk.....:lol:lol

Oh, I knew I was behind to one or both players, and knew I was drawing (and paying to draw). I also knew if it backfired then I would still be left with chips to play with. Very happy with the outcome, but those outcomes dont happen very often, so I would think twice about the same tactics next time. That pot took me 3rd of 900 left in the tournament. (600+ had been eliminated). I ended up going out 121st, which is my highest finish in such a big field. So happy enough with that. Got beat by 3 very good hands later, and was happy with the way I played each one. So no complaints.

[Gallowgate]

Re: Badly played and Lucky? The flop here is just about perfect for you. You have hit top pair, flush draw & inside St draw. The only hansd I would be looking out for is As + another spade or AA, KK. This is a pretty strong position on the flop and you want to maximise your returns. By just flat calling you are giving your opponent a chance to hit something on the turn. He had hit 2 pair already which should have been apparent after the turn when he bet and then went over the top. This is where you had to ask yourself what he really had. You had lots of outs and you took a chance and put your chips in... and got paid for it. In this game, sometimes you need to chance your luck now and again.

[morlspin]

Re: Badly played and Lucky?

The flop here is just about perfect for you. You have hit top pair, flush draw & inside St draw. The only hansd I would be looking out for is As + another spade or AA, KK. This is a pretty strong position on the flop and you want to maximise your returns. By just flat calling you are giving your opponent a chance to hit something on the turn. He had hit 2 pair already which should have been apparent after the turn when he bet and then went over the top. This is where you had to ask yourself what he really had. You had lots of outs and you took a chance and put your chips in... and got paid for it. In this game, sometimes you need to chance your luck now and again.

:welcome to pl Gallowgate!