GaF Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Did I play this as badly as I fear I did? Game # 1113072398 - Texas Hold'em No Limit 75/150 - Table "Tournament Table PuntersLounge - €250 Added 5257108 1" Players(max 9): avongirl (2,485.00 in seat 1) 1anesrA (2,375.00 in seat 2) ragzplay (2,849.00 in seat 3) plSamba (4,261.00 in seat 4) PLTQM (2,235.00 in seat 6) EYESALLIN (3,851.00 in seat 7) tealcsg1 (2,835.00 in seat 8) Dealer: EYESALLIN Small Blind: tealcsg1 (75.00) Big Blind: avongirl (150.00) 1anesrA was dealt: :Qh: - :Qs: 1anesrA Call (150.00) ragzplay Fold plSamba Call (150.00) PLTQM Fold EYESALLIN Fold tealcsg1 Fold avongirl Check Flop :9s: - :8s: - :Ts: avongirl Check 1anesrA Bet (300.00) plSamba Raise (1,425.00) avongirl Fold 1anesrA All-In (1,925.00) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw It looks reasonable enough post flop. Don't like the preflop play unless you were at a super-aggressive table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw Agreed, postflop play is ok. But what are you hoping for, limping QQ UTG with an M of just 10? Now we don't know the table dynamics or your current table image, were you hoping for a raise? Without any such info, i would have played QQ strongly here PF to negate the lousy position. Pushing all-in PF is a mistake since their calling range i probably too narrow, but raising to 600 seems fine. Then, if i'm reraised, i push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I'll wait until you give me the go ahead to give my reasoning behind the hand :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I'll wait until you give me the go ahead to give my reasoning behind the hand :ok No need to wait :ok Though not sure you've any explaining to do - I thought you played the hand well :ok Feel free to add anything you like, but dont feel you've anything to explain. I wasnt putting any more info, or the result up or anything. When I left the table I felt bad about it - not because of the result, but because I didn't feel I played it well (post flop surprisingly more than pre flop) - I'd lost my fold equity and stuck the rest of my chips in on a draw - I figured I was either ahead and drawing to lose the hand, or I was behind and drawing to win the hand - so a flip. A flip is great if you can add in any fold equity and I didnt allow myself to do that, though not sure exactly how I could have achieved it. Fair point Dave and Hoo about pre flop. It's an awkward stack size (M=10), where I do dont feel comfortable sticking it all in pre flop, but I dont like raising either. What do I do if I'm called pre flop and an overcard comes on the flop as it often will? I'm probably in too deep to get away from it.... I also feel (rightly or wrongly), playing against PL'rs, that most at the table know my game reasonably well - if they see me raise UTG, then I may as well turn my cards face up :unsure I am not deep, but I do have a premium pair, and I do want SOME action some of the time :unsure The limp was probably for deception, and to mix it up a bit against players that know me (though limping UTG seems to have become my standard play UTG with big cards against PLrs - that probably sets off as many alarm bells as a raise...) - though with hindsight limping cannot be right :sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw Well I can't remember what suit my Jack was, but I know I had the :As:. Pre-flop, your limp from utg - I actually had written in the chat box "ooh GaF limps utg, I know what that means!" :lol (remembering back to our BTB hand when you limped AA utg). I wasn't going to fold my AJo despite thinking you probably had a premium pair, but that was the reason I didn't raise. I was happy to see no action after me and seeing the flop for less than 4% of my stack, and with position. When I saw the flop, I expected you to c-bet with your 'premium pair' and I knew providing you weren't pot committed I was gonna put the decision straight back on to you. Reason for this being even if you did have an overpair, I had an up and down straight draw and the nut flush draw, so although I don't know the exact numbers, I figured I wouldn't be worse than a 45% rag - if you had Aces, better if you had JJ-KK, plus I had the added way of taking the pot with the fold equity, making it definitely +EV for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I'd lost my fold equity and stuck the rest of my chips in on a draw - I figured I was either ahead and drawing to lose the hand' date=' or I was behind and drawing to win the hand - so a flip. A flip is great if you can add in any fold equity and I didnt allow myself to do that, though not sure exactly how I could have achieved it.[/quote'] You've got a shortstack. Forget fold-equity, a flip is always a good position to be in as a shortstack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I don't think you were 'short stacked' here though? :unsure 16 x BBs? :unsure I do know I wouldn't have called with AJo for over half my stack if you had went all-in pre-flop though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I don't think you were 'short stacked' here though? :unsure I wouldn't have normally considered him shortstacked either - but if GaF thinks he was too short to raise pre-flop, then get away from the hand, he clearly did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw Is an open shove an option? Too big a bet isnt it? Would need to be a raise? Probably a mini raise to something like 375? :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I raise to 450. If you have to fold on the flop (which I wouldn't on this occassion) then you've still got enough chips to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I wouldn't have normally considered him shortstacked either - but if GaF thinks he was too short to raise pre-flop' date=' then get away from the hand, he clearly did.[/quote'] I suppose a raise to 375 leaves me with 2000 behind - which is enough to make a cbet (out of position) and still get away from the hand if necessary :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw .....Pushing all-in PF is a mistake since their calling range i probably too narrow, but raising to 600 seems fine. Then, if i'm reraised, i push. Is an open shove an option? Too big a bet isnt it? Would need to be a raise? Probably a mini raise to something like 375? :unsure Is my post invisible? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw Fair point Dave and Hoo about pre flop. Is my post invisible? :( Nope, did you not read GaF's? :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw Nope' date=' did you not read GaF's? :tongue2[/quote'] Ah, didn't see that, only saw his questions :$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw i prefer a bet of around 450 to start ,then a 6-700 c bet in this situation if sampa called that is:ok i would be trying to make money from them if i was short stacked, but as safely as possible. yes ,you can fold on a bad flop, but do you really want to be only be winning an extra 150 when you do take the hand down ,or walk into a crappy 2 pair that the blinds might hit on a raggy flop that looks good for your hand. all in all its a pretty good flop for you and i think you played it okay. i would guess your either behind but have a fair few outs ,or ahead but sampa has a few outs ,either way i wouldnt think the swing is much more than 60/40( unless he already has a flush with the ace or king )so you gotta push it all in really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Re: Overpair and inside straight flush draw I agree with most of the other guys, I'd raise pre-flop. I'd also raise 2.5x. if you do need to get away from the hand, pre or post flop, you minimise your losses. Post flop, you are only really behind to the made flush and over pair or a set, but Samba's push to me looked like what it was a great draw. No way could I fold by over pair with a spade here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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