mileni4uk Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 David Pipe took the Denman scalp today. Can he get Well Chief ready to beat Master Minded? The roles are reversed there. The unfit horse has a lot to find to beat the impressive MM, but if this actually happens I can see David Pipe as a champion trainer soon :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Re: Well Chief Yeah, he got the upper hand on Benman today, with a fully fit MDB... But getting Well Chief to beat Master Minded is a total different kettle of fish IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuleBritannia Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Re: Well Chief David Pipe took the Denman scalp today. Can he get Well Chief ready to beat Master Minded? The roles are reversed there. The unfit horse has a lot to find to beat the impressive MM' date=' but if this actually happens I can see David Pipe as a champion trainer soon :)[/quote'] Was only a couple of months ago that some members on here, (cant remember who and cant be arsed trawling through threads), were stating that Pipe had become a joke or a laughing stock, or comments of something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMc106 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Re: Well Chief I honestly can't see anything beating Master Minded anytime soon, I really can't. He was phenomenal in last years Queen Mother and if anything he has improved since then and nothing can get close to him, never mind beat him. Of course Voy Por beat him in the race after the QM but MM is strictly a 2 mile horse and the 2 miles 4 furlongs was just too far for him, but as I say he has improved and the only way he will be beaten off level weights is if he were to fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondetto Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: Well Chief I agree and doubt if Well Chief would have got anwhere near Master Minded even at his best. It's not that Master Minded has beat much it's the way he did it. He's absolutely anihalated a QMCC winner and did it at an age where he should have been still novice chasing. Only natural he should improve and looked even better to me when he ran last time. Amazing engine, jumps brilliantly and takes the Cheltenham hill in his stride like it wasn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: Well Chief I am very happy Pipe has chances in the big races at Cheltenham. At the start of the season it was looking desparate for other trainers with Nicholls having a stable full of stars. Well Chief can't beat MM, but I hope they get him fit and he finishes in the frame. I'm sure connections will be thrilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJarvis Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: Well Chief If Well Chief was back to his very best, he could easily beat Master Minded imo... Master Minded is no Moscow Flyer but the fact Chiefy has had severe injury problems means he is very unlikely to be anywhere near the horse he once was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondetto Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: Well Chief Master Minded certainly isn't a Moscow Flyer. He jumps better gaining lengths in the air at his fences. He travels better and is barely out of a canter until asked and when he is he responds with acceleration like a 5 furlong sprinter. MF was one tough horse who beat his opposition by grinding them into the ground. He was far from brilliant at his fences and certainly never came up the hill at Cheltenham like a scalded cat on the occasions I watched him. As a matter of interest how would you compare Moscow Flyer to Badsworth Boy or Dunkirk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJarvis Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: Well Chief Moscow Flyer was a fantastic jumper of a fence. He simply lost concentration here and there resulting in his rather patchy falling record. Believe me, just have a look at his two tingle creek victories and tell me they were not special (against top class opposition, unlike MM). He never won by far as he idled in front. He would sometimes beat Azertyiuop, Well Chief etc the same as he would beat an old rag in Ireland... he simply did enough and maybe that is why he held his form from 6 years old to 11 years old... Now that is special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: Well Chief Guess the BHB have it wrong then Jack, they've mistakingly rated Master Minded above Moscow Flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOP CAT Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: Well Chief Guess the BHB have it wrong then Jack' date=' they've mistakingly rated Master Minded above Moscow Flyer.[/quote'] Mind and email them to let them know. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJarvis Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: Well Chief Oh... and they haven't got it wrong in the past? I suppose they are spot on every single time.... Aye right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: Well Chief Mater Minded is the dogs bollocks. Last time out I couldn't get over how well he jumped and how much ground he gained on the opposition, simply superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJarvis Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Well Chief Just like they said with Azertyiuop..... Until he met the Mighty Flyer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuleBritannia Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Well Chief Just like they said with Azertyiuop..... Until he met the Mighty Flyer! There is no doubting how good Moscow Flyer was. His record speaks for itself. Master Minded's run last year might very well have been a freak (the margin/style), but MM has since gone on and slammed every rival over two miles by some distance and in some style. I do not honestly believe that ANY HORSE could have coped with MM last year in the QM chase, but that performance may have been one in a lifetime, Moscow Flyer produced brilliant gritty performances time and time again. The saying went if MF stood up he won, the same goes for MM over 2 miles. MM got his rating he has from that performance last year and I personally believe that performance was unlike anything Ive ever witnessed at Cheltenham, and that includes any of the 'Holy Trinity's' battles/victories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Well Chief There is not much between Well Chief, Moscow Flyer and Master Minded at their best. The BHB have MM better, but Timeform make MF and WC ahead. So it is not clear cut. Well Chief was running against two of the very best two mile chasers for 50 years. So it is easier to know just what they were capable of. MM is up against some of the poorest two mile chasers there has been in the last 50 years. At least poorer than the average year. However, he wins those races effortlessly. It is unfortunate there is nothing around to give him a race. We do not really know just how good MM is. The handicapper needs to make a rating for how good a horse is capable of, for future races. By guessing how far he could have won a race by. A form book only needs to make a rating for what the existing form is worth; and then say he is capable of better. May be putting on a few pounds for ease of victory. It would be unfair for them to put too much on the rating for what might have been. Some people might think MM could have won by another two lengths, others might say ten lengths. I believe Master Minded is capable of better form than both Moscow Flyer and Well Chief; but his form probably has not shown that yet. It is asking an awful lot of Well Chief, after his injuries to come back as good as ever. I think the betting tells us just what the prospects are of coming back to his best. If he is capable of his best then the price now is the best value bet ever; but if he was connections would have backed him already. Bringing the price down accordingly. Ginge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Well Chief Good write up Ginge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuleBritannia Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: Well Chief Timmy Murphy said on ATR today that if Well Chief turns up he will stand a good chance. "Whilst MM is a great horse, he can't have it all his own way." Personally, I think he is being rather optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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