ELCAKER Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Tough Spot or not ....part 2! Playing on LAdbrokes 50c-$1 - 5 handed game. I had come in for the max and lost $35 of it. I had only been in the game for around 15 minutes so hadn't had the chance to really get a read on anyone. 2 players had v large stacks comparatively. One was playing around $260, the other $150, me $65, another guy around the same, one guy shrt stacked with $26. I get dealt AQ in SB... 1st pos - $150: raises to $3, he's been raising quite a bit even in the 15 mins I've been playing - not had to show tho'. Either wins there and then or latter streets or gives it up. 2nd fold 3rd fold me: re-raise to $10 BB: Call 1st pos: Call Flop comes 8/9/Q rainbow I bet out $10 BB: All in for $14 Big Stack: Dwells then moves All in. What do I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 It' difficult to see what you're beating. One of them is likely to have trips, possibly both of them. A,Q maybe......10,J suited is just about possible. You're behind. Fold. Personally, I don't think I would reraise with A,Q, though I stand to be corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugleh Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 I don't play cash but I could easily put both of them on a draw. The big stack would probably call if he had a set. He's trying to isolate with his big all-in and does not want your call. I think you are probably ahead of the big stack and should therefore call, you would be playing a bigger pot against him than against the small stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 Easy call really. You already have over $20 of your money in the pot. You have top pair with ace kicker. your not really worried what small pot has as long as you win the side pot your happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 . You already have over $20 of your money in the pot. That's irrelevant, surely. The BB is saying he's got a hand and Player 1 is saying he's got it beat. It's an isolation bet for sure, but I can't see him making this move with a hand like J,J or K,Q with a player still to act. Q,J or Q,10 give him top pair with a draw to a straight, but would he have raised and called preflop with that? 9,9 8,8 and another A,Q fit best. I'm folding this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 The big stack is on a draw. I think you have the odds to call. That seems obvious to me, with a made hand he flat calls the $14 all in from the short stack. The push is designed to keep you out of the hand. The reraise with AQ is dodgy though at the start, now you're facing a decision you shouldn't be in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 That's irrelevant, surely. The BB is saying he's got a hand and Player 1 is saying he's got it beat. It's an isolation bet for sure, but I can't see him making this move with a hand like J,J or K,Q with a player still to act. Q,J or Q,10 give him top pair with a draw to a straight, but would he have raised and called preflop with that? 9,9 8,8 and another A,Q fit best. I'm folding this hand. I'm confused by your logic. I agree it's most likely an isolation bet, and so IMO they'll be making this play with exactly the kind of hand like KQ, QT etc. But you say it's not an isolation bet with a marginal hand but a strong made hand ... in which case why would they be making an isolation bet? The big stack is on a draw. I think you have the odds to call. That seems obvious to me, with a made hand he flat calls the $14 all in from the short stack. The push is designed to keep you out of the hand. The reraise with AQ is dodgy though at the start, now you're facing a decision you shouldn't be in Agree with all this. I don't think it's worth thinking about what the BB has, their range is so wide and they're short-stacked so it has lesser impact on what you have. So i'd concentrate more on what the big stack is doing. Yes, mid pairs making sets are in his raise n calling range pre flop but it doesn't make any sense to try and force you out of the hand right here. I'd mostly put the big stack on QT,QJ,KQ,J9, that kind of range, sometimes they'll show up with sets and straights and are fast playing them which isn't such a bad play vs short stacks i find. I think it's worth thinking about why you bet out at the flop in the first place. Looks like you've bet $10 into 30, so it looks like either an inducer for someone to come OTT and you snap call or a scared bet looking for information. If you're looking for information and an excuse to fold, then you got it right there and you should be folding i think. But if you're looking to induce the shove because you think you're hand is best then you should be calling really. What i'm saying is there should always been a reason for your bets and they should be followed through. I don't think it's good in the long run to bet to induce and then back out when you've got what you initially wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 I'm confused by your logic. I agree it's most likely an isolation bet, and so IMO they'll be making this play with exactly the kind of hand like KQ, QT etc. But you say it's not an isolation bet with a marginal hand but a strong made hand ... in which case why would they be making an isolation bet? Hi Nade. I'm still a rookie, so I don't always do logic. My reasoning was that Player 1 didn't like the texture of the flop and didn't want our man to call into a big pot for $4 with a draw. You're right though. I was too dismissive of a hand like KQ or Q,10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELCAKER Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 Looks like you've bet $10 into 30, so it looks like either an inducer for someone to come OTT and you snap call or a scared bet looking for information. If you're looking for information and an excuse to fold, then you got it right there and you should be folding i think. But if you're looking to induce the shove because you think you're hand is best then you should be calling really. Guys thanks for your feedback....like so many situations in poker there's no right or wrong answer - you're just right or wrong on that particular hand! I re-raised pre flop because the guy was raising alot - maybe 10 out of the previous 15 hands. I'm not putting him on a monster from 1st possie, certainly not 5 handed. It was also approaching 1 in the morning, now this shouldn't have too much bearing but people do drink...! When the flop comes q high I really want to define where I am, hence the continuation bet - to be honest I'm happy if Small stack pushes and villain f**ks off. But the all-in, then all-in just put me in such a tuff spot. I hadn't been playing long enough to accumulate enough info on the big stack. Sure I had top pair top kicker, but so many cards beat me - trips obviously, j-10 for made str8, then the overpair which I deemed more likely. He'd raised pre by $3, called my re-raise of $10, then moved in when another $24 had been added into the pot....(A poor play in my opinion as he's only called if beaten) Anyays - having clicked my timebank and sat for over a minute agonising I folded.... BB - showed 8-3 for bottom pair... Villain - K...10 Turn came a blank River 10, he scooped the pot. Obviously I was sick as.....bluffed out of it by a pishead. His name was Banana and I look forward to getting my own back at some stage! Which takes me back to what Nade was saying There should always been a reason for your bets and they should be followed through. I don't think it's good in the long run to bet to induce and then back out when you've got what you initially wanted. I think this is a really valid point mate, and thanks for sharing...but when do you fold then? And surely bets are as much about defining where you are. This is why the sizing of bets is so important. I didnt want to have to over commit myself to the pot. In this case I wish I had, but after playing the game for so long I know that top pair top kicker is only a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: Tough Spot...or not...Part 2 You made a good fold, in the long run he's gunna have a better hand in that spot. The re-raise is absolutely fine pre-flop playing 5 handed, nothing wrong with that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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