Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Wasn't sure where to post this thread but anyway i need some help i want to cover 7 matches with two different score lines so for example: Arsenal,Bolton,Chelsea,Everton,Man City,M'boro and Soton all to win 2-1 or draw 1-1 i want to cover them all in doubles, how many doubles would that consist off?????? This is my question?????:x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OddsAgainst Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Re: Please help???????? First calculate the number of doubles from 7. In Excel this give the answer =COMBIN(7,2) which is 21. Each selection has 2 options so to cover a double 4 bets are required. Total number of bets 21*4 = 84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 r.e Oddsagainst Thanks oddsagainst have u taken in account that there can not be the chance of the two results occuring as a double i.e.arsenal to win 2-1 and 1-1 is 1 double less as this is not possible??? I asume you have mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OddsAgainst Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Re: r.e Oddsagainst Each double has four possible outcomes, taking into account that the two predictions for each selection are mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Re:oddsagainst Thanks Oddsagainst :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Perms?????? Does anyone know if there is a calculator or tool on here that would help me work out bigger perms i.e. any 4 from 20???? Oddsagainst i think u could be the man in the know?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Help Is no-one going tohelp me then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eudaemon 1 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Re: Help i think theres somewhere online that does it for you but i dont know where.......or you can do it this way, using a caluclator, and mabye make a table or something: 4 from 20: (20*19*18*17) / (1*2*3*4) = 4845 because its '4' from 20, its 4 numbers multiplyed together divided by 4 numbers multiplyed together. because its from '20', you start from 20 and count down till you have 4 numbers : (20*19*18*17) the figure you divide by always starts from 1 and counts up till it reaches the the required number of numbers, in this case 4 : (1*2*3*4) if you wanted 3 from 10 it would be : (10*9*8 ) / (1*2*3) = 120 2 from 15 : (15*14) / (1*2) = 105 5 from 10 : (10*9*8*7*6) / (1*2*3*4*5) = 252 hope you get the picture :smokin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eudaemon 1 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Re: Help (This message was left blank) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OddsAgainst Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Re: Help Joe, I gave the Excel formula for that. If you have another speadsheet just search help for "combinations". Or get a calculator with built-in combination function. You won't get that on a basic one but it should be inexpensive. Some bookies have calculators for this, I believe, and also some web sitesl. Try a google search for "combination calculator" or similar. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnny Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 use the factorial button on your calculator Just use the factorial button on your calculator e.g. 4 from 20 20! / (4!*16!) 16 is used because it is the difference between 20 and 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 am i thick?? Hi OddsAainst i placed the bet i stated when opening this thread i wrote the games down on a blank coupon and then stated below i am covering the above matches to either finish 2-2 or 1-2 away win in £1 doublesx81 bets. I had 1 non runner and 1 winner dumbarton won 2-1 at 16/1 when i went back for my return the manager said he did not understand the bet and returned me £26 for the non runner and the single. Did i word my bet wrong Odds and did i get the right amont of cash back anyone else with any answers can reply too!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OddsAgainst Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: am i thick?? The non-runner means you have only 60 bets so you were due £24 refund. You have no wiinning bets so no return from your £60 stake. You worded the bet perfectly but the stake should have been £84. Out of interest what "bookmaker" did you place this with? If you only handed over £81 then you should have got back £21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 r.e Oddsagainst The bet was put on with Ladbrokes. The reason i ask about the wording is that i fancy doing the same type of bet week in week out but hopefully with a few winners,i just dont want complications every time i got to collect maybe its just cause they are unfamiliar with this type of bet???? Thanks for your quick reply by the way mate sorry if i am boring u with all this stuff, Joe Mavis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipstar Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: r.e Oddsagainst Joe I think you have been sold short on this bet the non runner bets are classed as singles on any winner therefore you have Dumbarton @ 16/1* 2-2 n/runner = £17 Dumbarton @ 16/1* 2-1 n/runner = £17 total to be returned £34. If you only put on £81 then you will have 0.96p going on each double....... Dumbarton @ 16/1 *0.96p * 2-2 n/runner = £16.32p Dumbarton @ 16/1 *0.96p * 2-1 n/runner = £16.32p total to be returned £32.64p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe Mavis Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 ?? I disagree i think it was correct i think £1 on the single at 16/1 and 8 void doubles so a return of £25 should be correct?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipstar Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: ?? Suit yourself its not me thats lost any money ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smudge Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: ?? actually tipster is right in my experience - i just had exactly the same happen on my french correct score with 2 of the teams being non runners. basically the winning score should be represented as a winning single against void score1 and void score2 = 2 winning singles @whatever price. if you had got 2 scores up and a void game you would have received - 1 winning double and 4 winning singles (i think). basically, the rule of thumb is if a selection is voided then you brink down any combos (related to that selection) down one level - trebles become double, doubles become singles! i reckon you are approx. a tenner short on this payou! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bcrazy Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: ?? I think Tipstar is right- there are 2 winning bets: Dumbarton to win 2-1 and the non-runner to win 2-1- pays out £17 Dumbarton to win 2-1 and the non-runner to win 2-2 pays out £17 Get your money back off those cheating snakes! >: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OddsAgainst Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: ?? I am wrong here but I don't think anyone has it correct. How can there be two winning bets? You can't have the winner with void 2-1 and void 2-2 as the bets are mutually exclusive. Lets assume the non-runner was actually a winner and the score was 2-2. We would have one winning double only, hence when the "winner" becomes a non-runner we have a winning single. I also think that the total stake may be divided up between the remaining selections so that each bet is now 84/60 = £1.40. Really not sure now, I will try and find out for tomorrow unless someone else comes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipstar Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 bet odds In your 84 bets you have Dumbarton 2-1* team x 2-2 (non runner) Dumbarton 2-1* Team x 2-1 (non runner) when you place your bet the above bets are classed as 1 double per bet regardless of whether the bets are interlinked each bet is regarded as a separate bet Therefore with team X being a non runner you get paid out on both separate doubles, hope this makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest system13 Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re:bet I agree too with tipstar and other guys that Joe was robbed,he should have been paid out for 2 single winners,it doesn`t matter that void bets are mutually exclusive,when the match is treated as a non-runner the bets should be settled on the remaining selection(s). I mean,what would happened if he played 84 separate slips instead of perming them? How many winners would he have?;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OddsAgainst Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: Re:bet You are right of course. It's been a busy day. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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