One For Omaha Players

[Guest]

Below is a hand that had me a bit perplexed .... so here it is .... 7 left in a rebuy satellite, top 2 win ticket (3-5 pay some cash). Full Tilt Poker Game #7489528054: Satellite to FTOPS Event #23 (56965182), Table 1 - 200/400 Ante 50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 1:43:44 ET - 2008/08/03 Seat 1: liamdouc (21,243) - chip leader since FT formed Seat 3: UKFinn4Life (8,200) - ME Seat 4: slickinindy (14,550) - limped into almost every pot Seat 5: Bud518 (6,690) - no notes Seat 6: NALU DOG (4,660) - connection problems, blinding out Seat 8: RedSlick (8,960) - Played a few hands, usually with high pairs Seat 9: rjlekit (13,197) - quiet since losing 6k on a previous hand liamdouc antes 50 UKFinn4Life antes 50 slickinindy antes 50 Bud518 antes 50 NALU DOG antes 50 RedSlick antes 50 rjlekit antes 50 slickinindy posts the small blind of 200 Bud518 posts the big blind of 400 The button is in seat #3 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to UKFinn4Life [4d Ac Jc Ah] NALU DOG folds RedSlick raises to 800 rjlekit folds liamdouc folds What is your play ?

[ubermonkey1]

Re: One For Omaha Players pot sized bet for me:ok your not gonna get much better than this but you need to protect the hand by raising. for a start the sb limps in a lot ,so a flat call may give him the odds to call as well and you really dont want that. hopefully from your notes red has a high pair:hopeas this gives you the best chance of a win(and maybe a reraise if he has ks).:hope its not double suited connectors as then your about a coinflip:eek i always try to isolate a player hu with aces in omaha as vs 2 players your odds will drop dramatically and you really need to hit an ace or flush to win,chances are your single pair wont be enough. better to either pick up the pot or try to get hu with red. one thing i would say is that if slick thinks he can limp into pots with the blinds this high, then the table is lacking aggression.you should be taking advantage of this and pot raising with anything reasonable in decent position:ok i take it the a seat way outways the 3-5 cash prizes :unsureas long it does i would be playing very aggressively at this point.

[Dodger]

Re: One For Omaha Players It's difficult to comment when it's on the bubble as we don't know your own frame of mind here, you could be desperate just to cash out...however we have to assume you want one of these two seats and surely you need to be making a big move with this starting hand at this stage of the game. Definitely a pot raise for me and a re-raise if your opponent also raises. Pre-flop against one opponent you are hardly going to be behind anything here...so I would say bang the chips in as fast as possible. You can't let slickinindy and bud in to see a cheap flop by flat calling...miss the flop and you are in dire straits...so get rid of them now and relish the heads up against RedSlick. :ok {..now somebody who really knows what they're doing will explain how this is not the move to make and I'll feel like a bloody donkey yet again!!! :(}

[wurzel133]

Re: One For Omaha Players well i think those two have summed it up for me definate pot raise

[Guest]

Re: One For Omaha Players Ok, much in line with your comments; 1) I'd seen enough of RED's play to believe his min raise was a signal of at least a big pair, most likely with at least 1 flush draw to back it up. 2) No way I wanted more than 1 caller and RED was the target. 3) Definitely playing to win - 2nd place cash was $35 vs the ticket $109 So, my pot raise was $3,350. Folded round to RED who called. Exactly what I hoped for :ok As he'd folded a few to me earlier I was now pretty sure of his hand and the type of flop I didn't want to see .... *** FLOP *** [5d 6s 8c] RedSlick bets 5,560, and is all in Now what ?? Call or Fold and why ??

[Guest]

Re: One For Omaha Players

one thing i would say is that if slick thinks he can limp into pots with the blinds this high, then the table is lacking aggression.you should be taking advantage of this and pot raising with anything reasonable in decent position:ok i take it the a seat way outways the 3-5 cash prizes :unsureas long it does i would be playing very aggressively at this point.

Definitely feel I missed out on this. In hindsight the table was very passive and I didn't take advantage enough. I spent at least 3 orbits happily picking up 1 set of blinds - then giving up mine to a pre flop raise when I looked down at nothing. People were stalling for top hands and I was one of them :sad Note to 'self if I pick up on this table dynamic again :ok

[Jaded]

Re: One For Omaha Players

*** FLOP *** [5d 6s 8c] RedSlick bets 5,560, and is all in Now what ?? Call or Fold and why ??

Fold. You played it well, but the flop sucks. Still enough in your stack to make a comeback here, so ditch it.

[SteveO]

Re: One For Omaha Players Looks to me as if Red has put you on aces and wants to take it off you. If has hit the flop so hard why doesn't he check raise you, as he'll expect you to follow through with a contiuation bet. I'd think fcuk it and call just to see what he had, although the correct thing to do is probably fold as you are behind to zillions of hands.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: One For Omaha Players yeah i think id be very worried at this point. just the sort of flop you dont wanna see:eek it's a tricky decision because your read on red could push you towards him having an overpair but if he's any good he should have read your reraise as aces or ks. if so then he shouldn't have called (or with akxx etc)but he should have with a rolling straight etc,if so pretty much any conectors/semi connectors would have hit this flop hard and you need to fold. i think i personally would fold in this situation. i would guess your read on red =him being a decent player and i cant see him pushing without hitting some sort of hand. my guess he's hit 2 pair and is trying to protect from the board counterfiting his 2 pair as he would probably have u on an overpair:unsure

[wurzel133]

Re: One For Omaha Players i would fold i might think i was still ahead but wouldnt be confident at this stage hoping a better position would come along if he had come back preflop i would have been happy to go allin but it wouldnt feel right to call here.

[billy the punter]

Re: One For Omaha Players This is tough, both pre and post flop. For me, more so than your average HE scenario, this is totally down to who you're playing and the level you're playing. He may be maknig a play on you if he thinks you have AA as Steve suggests. However, without prior knowledge of the player it's a case of folding I'm afraid (after raising pre), especially as it's an online sat. The % play is fold. You're going to be behind 90% of the time here. One thing I would say though, contrary to one of your comments, I would be hoping he folded preflop, at this stage of the tourn anyway. Your hand is so hard to play on the flop.

[Guest]

Re: One For Omaha Players :cheers Thanks for all the comments guys. Given me much more to think about when playing a similar hand. :clap Reason I say that is, to be honest, my mind was pretty blinkered. 1) I'd decided Red had a big pair and possibly one flush draw - not enough consideration to other hands maybe 2) My action was decided before he called my pre flop raise (maybe a bit foolishly) - any high flop that doesn't give me a made straight or flush draw I'm giving up on this draw thinking Red has likely got high cards and if I haven't hit a str8 on a high flop, he likely has. Before the flop, this was the only scenario that would have made me think to hang on to my chips - bad logic ?? - any high flop giving me a made str8 obvious all in / call - flush draw Against the smallish range I've put him on I think Im ahead, but would play with caution, especially with a high flop - any low flop with no obvious flush I think Im ahead here and moving all in ... my thinking was much like SteveO comments, if he misses the flop and thinks I did also, his only move is to try and force me out. Again my limited thinking about his range made me unafraid of any str8 possibilities. So - I call and the showdown is this; Me - [4d Ac Jc Ah] Red - [Qc Kc Qh 7h] :okor so i thought Turn was Q :wall river 7 Board - [5d 6s 8c Qs 7c] GAME OVER :( Even though my read was right, it really got me thinking after if I made some big errors in thinking along the way .... thanks for your input PS - If anyone has any comments on my decision making for post flop , please add a post :tongue2 :dude

[Dodger]

Re: One For Omaha Players I'm sorry that I didn't get a post in having seen the flop. I just couldn't have folded. You had put him on a range that included primarily high pairs and so that flop meant that he was highly likely to have missed it too. Assuming that he was playing with a high pair it is then highly unlikely that he has made a straight or two pair (don't know what the maths would be...i.e. if he has KKxx, what are the chances of him hitting the flop with his xx ????). I saw it as a push trying to get you to fold and would definitely have called the bet. If you reversed the situation...missing the flop left him no option except to try to push you out, which he did by raising all-in. I think you read the hand correctly even though it turned nasty...but then...that's poker for you!

[ubermonkey1]

Re: One For Omaha Players

:cheers Thanks for all the comments guys. Given me much more to think about when playing a similar hand. :clap Reason I say that is, to be honest, my mind was pretty blinkered. 1) I'd decided Red had a big pair and possibly one flush draw - not enough consideration to other hands maybe 2) My action was decided before he called my pre flop raise (maybe a bit foolishly) - any high flop that doesn't give me a made straight or flush draw I'm giving up on this draw thinking Red has likely got high cards and if I haven't hit a str8 on a high flop, he likely has. Before the flop, this was the only scenario that would have made me think to hang on to my chips - bad logic ?? - any high flop giving me a made str8 obvious all in / call - flush draw Against the smallish range I've put him on I think Im ahead, but would play with caution, especially with a high flop - any low flop with no obvious flush I think Im ahead here and moving all in ... my thinking was much like SteveO comments, if he misses the flop and thinks I did also, his only move is to try and force me out. Again my limited thinking about his range made me unafraid of any str8 possibilities. So - I call and the showdown is this; Me - [4d Ac Jc Ah] Red - [Qc Kc Qh 7h] :okor so i thought Turn was Q :wall river 7 Board - [5d 6s 8c Qs 7c] GAME OVER :( Even though my read was right, it really got me thinking after if I made some big errors in thinking along the way .... thanks for your input PS - If anyone has any comments on my decision making for post flop , please add a post :tongue2 :dude

in the end he made in my opinion a pretty bad play and got very lucky. getting tied to a pp below ks is a very dangerous game and his call pre flop is pretty awful. then pushing into a pot with qs with you almost certainly on an overpair is also highly dangerous game ,theres always a good chance you would call(especially as you had a good read on him). the good thing is your picking up good reads on the other players:ok if he had'nt shown down any rolling connectors etc and only played high cards then the call is very worthwhile. in the end he has very few outs and gets very lucky. the one thing i would say is always be wary of the other 2 cards they have with their pair. its always a sickener when you have someone on a big pp and they hit their other 2 cards for a straight or something. you get the read right but its very hard to pick up on a hand like that,these usually cost me a lot on the cash tables:eyes