KQo On the Bubble

[LetsWinBaby]

hi first time poster here, just looking for some advice on general bubble play and how i maybe couldve played this hand differently, fold preflop? bet the flop? I always read that you should loosen up on the bubble, but i would prefer to be tight and make the money first, anyway i think even if i played it bad it was still a :pukebeat. ** Game ID 867723943 starting - 2007-11-10 21:59:24 ** $2,750 GTD $20 NLHE Freezeout[1522684]:Table 17 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (600.00|1200.00 No Limit - MTT) Real Money - 63jimboy sitting in seat 1 with $5035.92 [Dealer] - Lets_WinBaby sitting in seat 2 with $14285.13 - paulwmather sitting in seat 3 with $23334.24 - Jadedfox sitting in seat 4 with $29346.25 - SCANNA sitting in seat 5 with $7805.17 - WHU145 sitting in seat 6 with $10613.08 - mousie sitting in seat 7 with $8770.80 - palletheplay sitting in seat 8 with $7071.60 [sitting out] - ellise sitting in seat 9 with $9999.47 - kas-36 sitting in seat 10 with $9227.66 Lets_WinBaby posted the small blind - $300.00 paulwmather posted the big blind - $600.00 ** Dealing card to Lets_WinBaby: King of Clubs, Queen of Diamonds Jadedfox folded SCANNA folded WHU145 folded mousie folded palletheplay folded ellise folded kas-36 raised - $2400.00 63jimboy folded Lets_WinBaby called - $2400.00 paulwmather called - $2400.00 ** Dealing the flop: 8 of Hearts, 9 of Clubs, Queen of Spades Lets_WinBaby checked paulwmather checked kas-36 checked ** Dealing the turn: 6 of Spades Lets_WinBaby bet - $3600.00 paulwmather went all-in - $21534.24 kas-36 folded Lets_WinBaby went all-in - $8585.13 paulwmather shows: 7 of Clubs, 7 of Spades ** Dealing the river: 5 of Spades paulwmather wins $31570.26 from the main pot End of game 867723943

[glceud]

Re: KQo On the Bubble I would have folded preflop. If I had called I would have bet big on the flop. The other guy played the hand to take it down after you bet half the pot on the turn Knowing he was either ahead or had possbly 10 outs and a 66% chance of you folding (incidently am in the 66% that would fold to the reaise) So you did everything I wouldnt which is what makes poker fun! Welcome to the board!

[kippe6]

Re: KQo On the Bubble :welcome mate i think you ran a race and lost to be honest,get another can and try again

[Nade]

Re: KQo On the Bubble :welcome Pre flop can't say i'm too comfortable with that call, imo if you think they're stealing the blinds then you should re-raise all in, but also they might not be stealing but still fold which is also good. It's either a fold or all in for me. Post flop a pot sized bet will probably take down the pot in most circumstances. This flop is a good one for you as you're only really behind to J10 or AQ. But you can't rely on others betting for you to re-raise i always like to fire when i've hit. Another problem i have is with the size of the turn bet. The board has a lot of straight/ flush draw possibilites so anyone with some piece of a draw will make a re-raise semi-bluff because of the size of your bet as a) they can win the hand from you folding and b) they have a great chance of winning even if you call. Again a pot sized bet or all in as it represents the big hand you have. Your size bet is good on a non scary board to induce a bluff but here it is scary so just try and take the pot down. On the bubble i tighten up but 99% of others do too so doesn't make too much difference, the other 1% can benefit i don't mind lol.

[Tom Hedonist]

Re: KQo On the Bubble :welcome LetsWinBaby kas-36 bet between a third and a quarter of their stack pre flop. Its only a min raise, which could well mean they're trying to induce others to call. They also have position after the flop. You could have raised to about half your stack, but this would still have been easy for paulwmather to call. Either go all-in to isolate or fold. TBH at this point I'd be folding and hoping that kas-36 loses the hand and ends up crippled. Once you hit the flop, I think you've got to shove all in and hope for the best. You have top pair with a good kicker, and you're also representing the straight. Put your opponents to the test and see if they want to risk everything in the case of kas-36 or almost two thirds for paulwmather. If either of them have JT or AQ then so be it. In the end you were very unlucky. If we take kas-36 out of the equation, you were a huge favourite over paulwmather on the flop. Even on the turn you were more than a 75% favourite... time to kick the dog, swear at the Mrs and pour yourself a drink, whilst you wonder why you were in the hand in the first place. :sad

[ubermonkey1]

Re: KQo On the Bubble :welcomelets win baby. i agree with everybody else,the pre flop call was not the best as you are a mid stack so not in real peril at the moment.kq is not the greatest hand and you have players to act after you so for me its a fold. on the flop you should have bet as there were draws out there and it is a nice sized pot,a good bet and the pot was yours .i can see why paulmather raised on the turn because it looks like he maybe ahead if not i dont think he credits you for a queen after your check on the flop,really this was good for you but you ended up hitting a bad river. so all in all you lost unluckily but you should have had the hand finished on the flop at least. playing aggressively on the bubble is good strategy :okbut in the right situations and played properly. for a start flat calling then checking is not aggressive ,you need to push people out of pots not flat call. as the blinds are so high just stealing them gets you good returns ,you only really want callers when you have a very good hand,so try to be aggressive against those that can't call. peoples stacks are a big help working out who to target. those near the bubble but not in absolute peril are the best people to play because they can afford to lose a blind or 3 but not a large chunk . those who are in desperate peril are dodgy because they may push with anything half decent usually leaving you no choice but to call. the big stacks are also more dodgy because they can push vs you and not be seriously crippled that gives them more leverage. position is also important,if say you are near the button and there are mid/small stacks to act after you, a raise will steal the blinds unless they have a really good hand .if you get a call/raise be carefull. also the type of players acting after you will effect how much you can steal.very solid players are the best to bluff against,very aggressive players the worst. putting these bits of info toghether will give you a good idea of when to steal and how much you can get away with. on a tight table i might steal a pot once a round,on a loose table maybe one in 3 rounds. as for the cards i play to steal with, i like to at least give myself a few outs if somebody does call me. suited cards ,connectors and semiconnectors are best i think ,because if somebody does have a big hand pre flop you night hit a friendly flop. stuff like ace/king rag is ok, but if you get a caller and hit a ace on the flop dont be afraid to throw it away if the bets get big,they probably have you beat. hope this helps get a better idea of how to be more aggressive but also in safer way, after all nobody ever wins a tourney with 20 people left, they can only lose it:ok.

[Nade]

Re: KQo On the Bubble I like the fact the guy came on to post his bad beat to get it off his chest, but actually gets some great advice then in fact dissapears for eternity :lol Their loss i suppose.

[Jaded]

Re: KQo On the Bubble

I like the fact the guy came on to post his bad beat to get it off his chest, but actually gets some great advice then in fact dissapears for eternity :lol

It's less than 24 hours since the post, give him a chance Nade!

[GaF]

Re: KQo On the Bubble

I like the fact the guy came on to post his bad beat to get it off his chest, but actually gets some great advice then in fact dissapears for eternity :lol Their loss i suppose.

Shish Kebab - the yoof of today? A little patience Nade!! His post isn't even 24 hours old yet and it's an "eternity"? :tongue2 I was tempted to delete the result from the hand history once all the money was in, but decided in the end to let the guy settle in first ;) BTW :welcome LetsWinBaby :ok With regards to bubble play - it's a $20 buy in I see - if you hit the cash, you get what $30? Have you played for however many hours for a $10 profit? Or are you in it to try and win the $1000 plus first prize? If you wait for the bubble to burst here (like a lot of others at your table will), will you also wait at every ladder point" in the pay scale? The same logic I presume holds up as it does at the bubble.... Every time you sit and wait you miss opportunities to build chips (at a time when others will be especially weak) - you severely hamper your chances of winning the tournament.... The few occasions when you play aggressively on the bubble and get yourself in a position where you can hit the final table will pay FAR more than the many occasions when you shut down and limp into the money...

[ubermonkey1]

Re: KQo On the Bubble not saying dont build chips quite the opposite,just that kq in that situation is a little dodgy i would wait for a bit better hand or situation than that.

[LetsWinBaby]

Re: KQo On the Bubble :lol dont worry, im still here. ive taken in all the comments and advice, its all been great. will definetly be sticking around. :clap thank you punters lounge!

[AJ]

Re: KQo On the Bubble The cold call pre flop is dreadful (sorry to be harsh), at that point you either need to fold or raise. The flat call lets the guy with 7s into the pot. with two players already in he's going to call, he doesn't quite have pot odds, but you've taken him a lot closer. He screws you over later when he hits his crappy straight. You should have either folded (correct play), or reraised the first guy all-in (not a bad play, with only one player to act after you), these two outcomes are fairly marginal. Your flat call is dreadful, worst possible choice. Then the flop comes, with a connected board. (8c 9s Qh); you have top pair, great kicker. Great position, but a vulnerable board. no flush danger, but you are open to drawing hands. Big unsuited cards like yours here, play well preflop and on the flop, but if someone is drawing at you, you need to make it not worth his while. if someone hits on the later rounds your in trouble. You need to protect your hand, there is $7,200 in the pot, half your stack. What do you do ? give him a free card. he hits an open ended straight draw, he has 10 outs, (4 fives, 4 ten and the other two sevens) so about a 44% chance of hitting. The $7.2k already in the pot sweetens the deal enough to make it the correct move. He pushes, you call' he wins. I'd have pushed in his position as well. Sorry if this is a post full of harsh criticism, but for me you played an complete shocker, you got it wrong at every stage. If you'd raised preflop, or put out a pot sized bet on the flop you could have taken down the pot, instead you let him into the pot cheap, give him a free card, and then when he gets an open ended draww with a rich pot, you pay him off. Try doing some reading, Millar/slansky/malmouth "beating low stakes hold 'em" would be a good starting point. btw, I've not read any of the other replies to this thread before writing this, in the event that everyone else has disagreed with me, so be it

[robsterling]

Re: KQo On the Bubble I again may fold preflop, you're out of position with a possibly dominated hand. However this depends on how the button has been playing. Has he been trying to steal from the button often when it is folded to him? And has the big blind been loose/tight/weak/aggressive? Taking these into account i may call/reraise/push so the call isn't absolutely terrible, but not good all the same. Again reraising depends how the button plays, is he the kind of player who doesn't fold to reraises as he doesn't like to be pushed about? Is he loose anough to call an all in on A high? Anyway once the flop comes, you must bet at least 2/3 of the pot. You have the best hand almost certainly but it is still a drawy board where you don't want to give away free cards. Unlucky by the river, but he probably thought he might have a little fold equity on the turn, putting you on an 8 or 9 that he could push you off and still have redraws over if not as he is 22% (not 44% - sorry AJ) to win anyway. So after not betting the flop you have to bet more than half the pot on the turn, although you did get your money in ahead so this wasn't a huge issue. Not betting the flop was the problem imo and as well as a nice portion of bad luck!

[Pondicherry]

Re: KQo On the Bubble I fold pre flop here. KQo out of position against a raise is -ev for me. As played, would have bet the flop. Re bubble play. I try and play "normally" around the bubble. Natural instinct is to tighten up so I find playing normally means relatively more aggressive compared to others.

[AJ]

Re: KQo On the Bubble

Unlucky by the river, but he probably thought he might have a little fold equity on the turn, putting you on an 8 or 9 that he could push you off and still have redraws over if not as he is 22% (not 44% - sorry AJ) to win anyway.

Was just comming to post on that subject, for some reason I thought he'd hit his open ended draw with two cards to go not one, hence my doubling of the percentage. In my defence it was late at night, and I'd had a few beers. Still really hate the flat call preflop, it's just so passive.