GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I know its a ball ache but if you prefer why not send me a few HH's when you shoved with less than good cards but in the right position - thats what I need to work on:ok I will dig out a few hands (in a new thread) once I can get into Paradise (wont be long, I'm playing embarassingly poorly on Virgin - wont be around much longer - I think Sam's sledging got me :tongue2)) I wont "filter" these hands - so I don't necessarily claim to have played the hands well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) This is on the bubble... ***** Hand 760366886 ***** 150.00/300.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 20 September 2007 18:35:52 5 Player $5 NL Speed (Real /Tournament ) Seat 2: ValeDown (5555.00) Seat 4: bekýr (1075.00) Seat 5: TsingisKha (870.00) ValeDown post SB 150.00 bekýr post BB 300.00 ** Deal ** ValeDown [10c, 6s] bekýr [N/A, N/A] TsingisKha [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** TsingisKha Fold ValeDown Raise to 2100.00 bekýr Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 600.00 ValeDown By default Win: 600.00 bekýr Fold Win: 0.00 TsingisKha Fold Win: 0.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap This is harder than I thought to find them :unsure (can only look at 1 hand at a time and then have to go back and search for the next hand...) - what I'll do is jot down some hand history numbers in future games :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap I'm always wary when raising with crap if there are uber short stacks(about 3/4blinds left) left to act as i always feel they should be calling with virtually any 2 cards so i wait for hands like J10 which are marginal but have a better chance than 10,6 like in your example. What's your thought process to be able to shove with anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap I don't mean to sound crappy, and I realise you've only posted one hand so far, but its fairly easy making this type of bet with crap when you're the big stack (or in this case the fairly huge stack). Would you have made the same play if you had TsingisKha's chip stack? Again, I'm not trying to be pissy. I'm genuinely interested... although tbh I'm more interested in short stack play around the bubble (mainly cos I'm fed up with more 2nd & 3rd places than firsts :$) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap In this specific game it was a case of we were on the bubble and they were both clearly playing to avoid bubbling (I was a significant short stack when we went 3 handed). By this stage, I was raising to "steal" blinds in such a way as to keep their stacks relatively similar - when they were similar, I was stealing from both .... they were too busy looking at one another, trying to avoid bubbling, to fight back .... If one of them got a bit lower than the other, I'd give him a walk to level it up again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap I don't mean to sound crappy, and I realise you've only posted one hand so far, but its fairly easy making this type of bet with crap when you're the big stack (or in this case the fairly huge stack). Would you have made the same play if you had TsingisKha's chip stack? I was the short stack entering the bubble and bullied my way to that chip lead :ok (If I recall that game correctly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap I was the short stack entering the bubble and bullied my way to that chip lead :ok Fair enough :ok Congrats :clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap Gaf do you play the same if you know the short stack will call you with those chip positions or try to preserve your image? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap I'm always wary when raising with crap if there are uber short stacks(about 3/4blinds left) left to act as i always feel they should be calling with virtually any 2 cards so i wait for hands like J10 which are marginal but have a better chance than 10' date='6 like in your example. What's your thought process to be able to shove with anything?[/quote'] thats easy - neither of them wants to go broke and end up third so they will continue to fold hoping the other makes the 'mistake' and calls this is pretty standard stuff so best add it to your repotoire if you are not doing this :ok Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap Gaf do you play the same if you know the short stack will call you with those chip positions probably yes - it depends how much the short stack is compared to the blinds - remember unless shortie has an over pair and or the same high card with a better kicker, he will be at best a 60/40 fav, more likely 55/45 (or coinflipping as some people say....:eyes) with a couple of over cards, so GaF is not too far behind in the race to win, and the person who really benefits from this, is the other guy, the one who has already folded because: GaF might win and therefore he is in the cash the shortie calls and doubles up so it makes the real shorties play dead simple now as he has to double up and therefore he is AI (or fold) the next hand regardless of his cards, he no longer has to play the waiting game for the other one to callDamo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap thats easy - neither of them wants to go broke and end up third so they will continue to fold hoping the other makes the 'mistake' and calls this is pretty standard stuff so best add it to your repotoire if you are not doing this :ok Damo You're right i probably should do it more, but the situation where i don't like raising is when there are 4 left there will be the chip leader on say 6k, i'll be on 3k, next will have 2.5k and short stack 1.5k with blinds at 200/400. As i said i expect the short stack will be tempted to go all in with anything and if i call with a marginal hand and lose the race which is a 50/50 chance then my stack is chopped in 2 and im then the short stack with 1.5k. In these situations should i be looking to take the blinds of the uber short stack or the bigger stacks, the latter is what i tend to do if the uber short stack has already folded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap You're right i probably should do it more' date=' but the situation where i don't like raising is when there are 4 left there will be the chip leader on say 6k, i'll be on 3k, next will have 2.5k and short stack 1.5k with blinds at 200/400. As i said i expect the short stack will be tempted to go all in with anything and if i call with a marginal hand and lose the race which is a 50/50 chance then my stack is chopped in 2 and im then the short stack with 1.5k. In these situations should i be looking to take the blinds of the uber short stack or the bigger stacks, the latter is what i tend to do if the uber short stack has already folded.[/quote'] a-ha - thats a completely different scenario - depends on position and cards and how loose you think they are and how loose you think you are perceived Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 21, 2007 Author Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap Gaf do you play the same if you know the short stack will call you with those chip positions or try to preserve your image? If I am chip leader and we are on the bubble, I will often fold, even strong hands, to maintain the bubble (and keep the pressure on 2nd placed guy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 21, 2007 Author Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap A "typical" situation here - If I'm Small Blind and everyone folds to me, and the smaller of my stack and the BB's stack is less than about 5xBB then I almost always shove with any 2.... ***** Hand 761462363 ***** 100.00/200.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 21 September 2007 17:35:16 5 Player $5 NL Speed (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: Plasto (1045.00) Seat 2: bitti72 (1340.00) Seat 3: Tuppu (4010.00) Seat 4: ValeDown (1105.00) ValeDown post SB 100.00 Plasto post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** Plasto [N/A, N/A] bitti72 [N/A, N/A] Tuppu [N/A, N/A] ValeDown [4s, 5d] *** Bet Round 1 *** bitti72 Fold Tuppu Fold ValeDown All-in 1105.00 Plasto All-in 1045.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [Ac, 10d, 10c] *** Turn(Board): *** : [Ac, 10d, 10c, 7s] *** River(Board): *** : [Ac, 10d, 10c, 7s, 5s] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 2090.00 Plasto [2d, 3d] Pair of tens Win: 0.00 bitti72 Fold Win: 0.00 Tuppu Fold Win: 0.00 ValeDown [4s, 5d] Two pair tens and fives Win: 2090.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap thanks GaF - I have all the info I need now:ok cheers Damo A "typical" situation here - If I'm Small Blind and everyone folds to me, and the smaller of my stack and the BB's stack is less than about 5xBB then I almost always shove with any 2.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 21, 2007 Author Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap Similar in reverse here - 3 consecutive hands where I was the BB, the SB tried to limp, I raised him all in (first hand with 32o) and he folded.... ***** Hand 761628025 ***** 100.00/200.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 21 September 2007 19:30:19 5 Player $5 NL Speed (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: **OBAN** (3615.00) Seat 3: ValeDown (1205.00) Seat 5: Osvaldo 9 (2680.00) **OBAN** post SB 100.00 ValeDown post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** **OBAN** [N/A, N/A] ValeDown [3h, 2h] Osvaldo 9 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** Osvaldo 9 Fold **OBAN** Call 200.00 ValeDown All-in 1205.00 **OBAN** Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 400.00 **OBAN** Fold Win: 0.00 ValeDown By default Win: 400.00 Osvaldo 9 Fold Win: 0.00 ***** Hand 761629873 ***** 150.00/300.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 21 September 2007 19:31:28 5 Player $5 NL Speed (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: **OBAN** (3515.00) Seat 3: ValeDown (1305.00) Seat 5: Osvaldo 9 (2680.00) **OBAN** post SB 150.00 ValeDown post BB 300.00 ** Deal ** **OBAN** [N/A, N/A] ValeDown [Ad, 8s] Osvaldo 9 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** Osvaldo 9 Fold **OBAN** Call 300.00 ValeDown All-in 1305.00 **OBAN** Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 600.00 **OBAN** Fold Win: 0.00 ValeDown By default Win: 600.00 Osvaldo 9 Fold Win: 0.00 ***** Hand 761631764 ***** 150.00/300.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 21 September 2007 19:32:38 5 Player $5 NL Speed (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: **OBAN** (1760.00) Seat 3: ValeDown (3060.00) Seat 5: Osvaldo 9 (2680.00) **OBAN** post SB 150.00 ValeDown post BB 300.00 ** Deal ** **OBAN** [N/A, N/A] ValeDown [9d, Ks] Osvaldo 9 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** Osvaldo 9 Fold **OBAN** Call 300.00 ValeDown All-in 3060.00 **OBAN** Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 600.00 **OBAN** Fold Win: 0.00 ValeDown By default Win: 600.00 Osvaldo 9 Fold Win: 0.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap Similar in reverse here - 3 consecutive hands where I was the BB' date=' the SB tried to limp, I raised him all in (first hand with [b']32o) and he folded.... **OBAN** [N/A, N/A] ValeDown [3h, 2h] GaF, I'm meant to be the poker mod who can't even put himself on a hand! :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap How about shoving when ahead Gaf? The exact situation i'm talking about is a heads up i've just been in after a regular 9seater, was short stack going into the final 3 but just demolished the other 2 pre and post flop and got HU with a lead then after some jostling was up 8.5k to 5k and got AQo, they raised 4xBB i put them all in and they called with K8o. Unfortunately they won the race and the next hand i lost the tourn. My Q is - Would i have been wise to outplay them in the long run rather than try and end the tourn in one go even if certain i'm ahead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 21, 2007 Author Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap Depends almost entirely on the blinds.......But you got all the money in when ahead - over time that's profitable, so no issues - the result of one particular hand are is of no significance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap Ups, blinds 100/200, as i say they raised 4xBB which was up to 800... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgej Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Re: Example Hands - Shoving with Crap I think if anyone is really shortstacked they will be calling you with any Ax or Kx. For me, it probably depends on the buyin and blinds but if i was within 3 big blinds of being out - i'd have a crack at calling you GaF :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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