Playing the 'Nuts' more Efficiently

[Crouch Potato]

I felt I played this one really poorly. I'll explain my thoughts after each street: End Of Hand #99517159 Table #1991212 - Shooting Star Starting Hand #99517881 Last Hand #99517159 Game Type: Hold'em Limit Type: No Limit Table Type: Ring Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50 Button is at seat 10 Seat 1: AZREAL22 - $0 (away from table) Seat 2: onemountain - $57.25 Seat 3: KimiRaikkonen - $46.75 Seat 4: MingGinGusset - $71.58 Seat 5: FingersIan - $25.26 Seat 6: pkrpat - $36.93 Seat 7: DaveyBoy10 - $73.95 Seat 8: scoober222 - $29.98 Seat 9: pizdush - $30.03 Seat 10: LoneWolf001 - $71.70 Moving Button to seat 10 onemountain posts small blind ($0.25) KimiRaikkonen posts big blind ($0.50) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Qs Ks] to KimiRaikkonen MingGinGusset folds FingersIan did not respond in time and is folded FingersIan folds pkrpat calls $0.50 DaveyBoy10 folds scoober222 folds pizdush calls $0.50 LoneWolf001 calls $0.50 onemountain folds KimiRaikkonen checks KQs good drawing hand, can see for free. No need to play OOP as you want to see flops with drawing hands and on PKR people can call with ATC Dealing Flop [Td As Jc] KimiRaikkonen checks pkrpat checks pizdush checks LoneWolf001 checks Being the first to act here, a check seems the best option IMO. Dealing Turn [8c] KimiRaikkonen bets $1.50 Can't check again and flush draw now out there, not to mention I might let someone with a gutshot get another free card. pkrpat folds pizdush raises to $6 LoneWolf001 calls $6 KimiRaikkonen raises to $15 At this point I am thinking 'All-in', but at the same I want to give someone the chance to hang themself by coming over the top. Tbh I'm not exactly considering there hands as much as I should but I'm convinced they don't have a set, save for perhaps trip 8s. LoneWolf's call here could suggest perhaps a King high flush draw, but I'm really not going through these thoughts at the time. I think this is my first error in this hand - I didn't raise enough. Input here would be good pizdush calls $15 LoneWolf001 calls $15 Dealing River [3c] KimiRaikkonen checks pizdush bets $14.53 (all-in) LoneWolf001 calls $14.53 KimiRaikkonen calls $14.53 Now this one seems even worse. The flush draw is possibly made so I just check hoping to show down. Piz pushes all-in and Lone just calls, so I'm happy enough to call here and be beat by the river flush as I'm getting I think 5-1 and so would only need to be ahead 20% of the time. (not sure what I'd do if he went all-in; probably call because I'm a donk at heart). Anyway, I can't help but feel that, flush on the river aside, at some point in this hand I need to get all my money in the pot. The fact that I'd probably call an all-in on the river means I should get all my money in there at some point anyway, so that the times I'm ahead I get paid off more to offset the times where I'm not good enough to lay the hand down. My biggest problems I think are that I'm looking to get paid off majorly too much to the point where I jeopardise me winning the hand, and not really considering the range of hands my opponents have. So, how would you play this, and what I'm more interested in, is what thought processes do you have at each junction of betting.

[Nade]

Re: Playing the 'Nuts' more Efficiently You will have seen my thoughts on flopping the nut straight before and that is to push a lot if not all your money in, all-in if there is the flush draw on the flop (not in this situatiion) but you had to bet a lot, there will be callers because of the high cards on the board so i don't see a problem with it. $1.50 on the turn? Well, as i said on the flop a lot has to be bet, even more so now with the flush draw so all-in is the only option. The river is an easy call but out of frustration really due to the previous events. Maybe my advice is not the best help because you've seen me say it all before but i'll but my two penneth in anyway... :sad

[Crouch Potato]

Re: Playing the 'Nuts' more Efficiently Turn bet should probably be bigger but at the time I think the pot size is $2.25, so I don't want to go too heavily over the top. My aim (or at least, what should be my aim) here isn't to win the pot etc. but to induce the incorrect action from the other players, though I'm not quite sure the optimal actions to achieve this...

[Nade]

Re: Playing the 'Nuts' more Efficiently

Turn bet should probably be bigger but at the time I think the pot size is $2.25' date=' so I don't want to go too heavily over the top. My aim here isn't to win the pot etc. but to induce the incorrect action from the other players, though I'm not quite sure the optimal actions to achieve this...[/quote'] Yep, well sorry to say it but you caused your own troubles with the check on the flop as i said. On the turn i understand your feeling, but ultimately i think when i play that sometimes even with a sick hand like yours that taking the pot maybe the best option as you can get out-drawn. In that situation i think you over analyzed it i.e. you're saying you want to 'induce the incorrect decision' but at the end of the day we both know pkr and we both know someone will have a flush draw so i can't understand your checks and low bets, sometimes we need to keep it simple as poker players, a bigger bet was needed an all-in as i say, well, i guess you know my thoughts.

[Crouch Potato]

Re: Playing the 'Nuts' more Efficiently I agree, the re-raise all-in I'm pretty sure was the correct play, but on the turn I can't say that opening with an all-in is the correct play as it's about as optimal as going all-in with AA PF. You are right in that there are more fishes and that should affect your raises etc., but you still want them calling you when they shouldn't be.

[Nade]

Re: Playing the 'Nuts' more Efficiently

I agree' date=' the re-raise all-in I'm pretty sure was the correct play, but on the turn I can't say that opening with an all-in is the correct play as it's about as optimal as going all-in with AA PF. You are right in that there are more fishes and that should affect your raises etc., but you still want them calling you when they shouldn't be.[/quote'] I only say all-in because of the flush draw, at least a high bet. Anyway it's all in hindsight, just trying to say what i'd do in the same situation but who knows.

[Nade]

Re: Playing the 'Nuts' more Efficiently Right, this is an interesting because there was a mixture of my mad poker feeling and skill. The hand before i got 8,9 of diamonds and neither got close so this time i get 6,7 and in betting in general i sometimes look at the 'law of averages' so this was one of the reasons for playing it, but the main reason comes from some crouchie logic he told me a few days ago. He said that when tight players raise you know they're got a sick hand so it can be worth a call with live cards to see if you can hit a gem of a flop and take their dough. So when monster raised a small amount the feeling was right to call... Starting Hand #99956642 Last Hand #99955582 Game Type: Hold'em Limit Type: No Limit Table Type: Ring Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50 Button is at seat 9 Seat 1: KimiRaikkonen - $72.28 Seat 2: djl8888 - $1 Seat 3: ssdexter - $56.11 Seat 4: 27Nade - $60.79 Seat 5: xXShaneXx - $0 (away from table) Seat 6: Daveco - $19.51 Seat 7: Dihan - $47.43 Seat 8: Monster31 - $95.40 Seat 9: Dresi - $29.73 Seat 10: mantisman - $10.70 Moving Button to seat 10 KimiRaikkonen posts small blind ($0.25) djl8888 posts big blind ($0.50) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [6d 7d] to 27Nade ssdexter calls $0.50 27Nade calls $0.50 Daveco folds Dihan folds Monster31 raises to $2 Dresi folds mantisman folds KimiRaikkonen folds djl8888 calls $1 (all-in) ssdexter calls $2 27Nade calls $2 Dealing Flop [9s 8h 5c] ssdexter checks 27Nade bets $0.50 Monster31 raises to $4.50 ssdexter folds 27Nade raises to $8.50 Monster31 calls $8.50 Dealing Turn [4s] 27Nade bets $18 Monster31 raises to $84.90 (all-in) 27Nade calls $50.29 (all-in) Returning $34.61 to Monster31 uncalled djl8888 shows [6h Tc] 27Nade shows [6d 7d] Monster31 shows [Qs Qc] Dealing River [Jc] Taking Rake of $3 from pot 2 Monster31 has One Pair: Queens 27Nade has Straight, 9 high 27Nade wins $117.58 from side pot #1 with: Straight, 9 high 27Nade wins $4.25 with: Straight, 9 high KimiRaikkonen: nh Seat 1: KimiRaikkonen - $72.03 Seat 2: djl8888 - $0 Seat 3: ssdexter - $54.11 Seat 4: 27Nade - $121.83 Seat 5: xXShaneXx - $0 Seat 6: Daveco - $19.51 Seat 7: Dihan - $47.43 Seat 8: Monster31 - $34.61 Seat 9: Dresi - $29.73 Seat 10: mantisman - $10.70 End Of Hand #99956642 On the flop i wanted to induce a bet, a small amount of 50c was always going to be raised by an over-pair or a set so when he re-raised i took the opportunity to increase the pot knowing i had the nuts but also he wasn't going to lay down his hand for another $4 so it was just to increase the pot. On the turn there is now a chance of the flush but it was massively unlikely he had that as that meant he had re-raised then called with nothing on the flop so it wasn't in my thoughts. The $18 bet was an attempt to make it look like a bluff, a big bet but not too big to jeapordize my stack so if he calls or re-raises then brilliant. He re-raised all in and it took my about a milisecond to call, but i was surprised to see him turn over Q's as you'd thought he would have worried about the kings, aces, set, or straight so it was a bit of donk play by him over-playing his over pair like most do. Also Dan Negreanu is a big advocate of playing small suited connectors as when they hit nobody has any clue what you've got. I like to take bits from pro players.