Burnley Joe Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) I have a list of 3 players BoogaBooga DLizzle Rodragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) I know what they're saying is a load of crap, but could MikeSaban or AJ give their considered opinion as IT professionals? :unsure Anyway I'm shocked that they're bull-shitting you both in this way. Quite frankly it's deplorable and worthy of Boss Media. I know that its optimistic for Gaf to hope for a 'full' settlement, but I certainly believethey have a case to answer. Good luck gents. :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Cheers Val, i`m used to it now, so I know how to waffle with these sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) I have a list of 3 players BoogaBooga DLizzle Rodragon I can add to the list: Bekmedl That's actually it - looking through properly, I actually didn't move table and the other sit outs I saw were only for one hand - however 3 of us from 9 sat out at the same time is still a lot!!! and all 3 didn't return till blinded away.... (over an hour for BoogaBooga and I) BoogaBooga was a big loser in this too - he went out just before me, having been sat out as long....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Anyway I'm shocked that they're bull-shitting you both in this way. Quite frankly it's deplorable and worthy of Boss Media. Things go wrong, crashes happen - everywhere - the difference between the poker rooms is what they do when it happens and how they deal with it - the Mansion response here, so far as I'm concerned puts them down with the worst of them!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) I'll have a word with Mansion tomorrow guys, first I've seen of this. Please let me know with a PM in these cases, as it's just impossible to read every thread on PL these days. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Well get of the nest and get playing poker! Although make the most of it, once wed, that will be the end of that!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) This is outrageous!!:@ I sincerely hope that Joe and GaF get some reasonable level of compensation for this. :hope Though I doubt it. The same happened to me on Titan, and they couldn't even be bothered to respond to my mails. They did eventually refund my entrance fee. How philanthropic of them!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libi71 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) I know what they're saying is a load of crap, but could MikeSaban or AJ give their considered opinion as IT professionals? :unsure Anyway I'm shocked that they're bull-shitting you both in this way. Quite frankly it's deplorable and worthy of Boss Media. I know that its optimistic for Gaf to hope for a 'full' settlement, but I certainly believethey have a case to answer. Good luck gents. :hope I am not one of the aforementioned, still I earn my doe in the dirty trade known as IT. :lol As was said before, there answer is really just crap. Theoretically, some part of the Internet might be down so that it really would be difficult to get from A to B, but you would have read about this in the news (seaquake in east Asia for example around Xmas). As both have been able to connect to other sites, this makes it even more unlikely (though I had a case once where I could not connect to the states but everything in Europe was working fine, but that is way back and much less likely nowadays). Even more crap is them saying that for a poker program even loosing a single packet is vital - if this was the case for Mansion then a) not a single poker session would work out as packets are lost (and resent) frequently b) they should have their programmers shot and tortured immediately (not necessarily in this order) The Internet per se is to be considered unreliable for the delivery of single packets, so any Internet capable program (like a browser) has to deal with this unreliability. In a nutshell: complete utter nonsense and an offense to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Cheers for that libi :ok As a few people have said, I'd be lucky to get the full settlement for the position I was in when Mansion crashed - and they are of course right. That "claim" was made out of frustration at losing my very real shot at $24,000!! To pay me the 4th place prize money, would be wrong by Mansion (much as I'm gutted at losing my shot!!). The "correct" settlement, I suppose would have to be from the usual calculation at server crashes ..... so a quick calculation ..... $50,000 / 64 Players (I THINK!!) = $781.25 $50,000 * (54 408 / 1 382 500) = $1967.74 Total: $2,748.99 Quite (VERY) disappointing really given my position, but does tat seem a more reasonable expectation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) just as a note. it is possible for an error such as this to occur without it being mansions fault. if all these players who were getting disconnected were going through a common routing node. and this node were to update its DNS table during the tourny it is entirely possible that the packets could get 'lost'. in that every node along the way thinks that these packets are being forwarded correctly and are being received, but in reality they are being forwarded to an address that no longer exists. IP protocol can occasionally fail in this manner. although its very unlikely. another possibility is that a routing server or node at mansions ISP or in the datacentre that forwards traffic to their servers went down/broke and couldnt forward the data. however this situation would make the party responsible culpable for the loss of business mansion received however, due to most contracts this would only cover the potential rake mansion lost at this time and not the customers such as yourselves that lost out. in this situation, mansion would be responsible but not obligated to provide you with what you lost as a result of this failure. however if they are respectable, they will address this issue properly. and soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Cheers for that libi :ok As a few people have said, I'd be lucky to get the full settlement for the position I was in when Mansion crashed - and they are of course right. That "claim" was made out of frustration at losing my very real shot at $24,000!! To pay me the 4th place prize money, would be wrong by Mansion (much as I'm gutted at losing my shot!!). The "correct" settlement, I suppose would have to be from the usual calculation at server crashes ..... so a quick calculation ..... $50,000 / 64 Players (I THINK!!) = $781.25 $50,000 * (54 408 / 1 382 500) = $1967.74 Total: $2,748.99 Quite (VERY) disappointing really given my position, but does tat seem a more reasonable expectation? this would be true if the tourny got cancelled as a result of technical fault. but in order for them to do this they'd have to do a poker-room and withdraw whats already paid out in order to compensate everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) if all these players who were getting disconnected were going through a common routing node. and this node were to update its DNS table during the tourny it is entirely possible that the packets could get 'lost'. in that every node along the way thinks that these packets are being forwarded correctly and are being received, but in reality they are being forwarded to an address that no longer exists. IP protocol can occasionally fail in this manner. although its very unlikely. Forgive me if I go a bit techy here.. you need to forget about DNS, it's not relevant. DNS is a one time lookup at the source, which assigns the destination IP address, there is no DNS performed on a packet at each step as it travels through the internet. Anyway the Spanning Tree or what ever routing protocol they are using would sort it out faster. Also remember TCP is a connection oriented protocol after all, I'm 99% sure poker traffic isn't udp based. In simple terms as each router sends packets to the next hop, it knows if they've been delivered, if not it'll try and send them again abet to a higher cost route. That's how the internet works. There is never just one step for routers to send packets along. Certainly not in a carrier class environment But if the problem occurs very close to their end, (such as at their ISP) then there may not be an alternative route. I'll not bore you with the details of how split horizons and how route posioning would make sure your traffic would be delivered. But rest assured what they've told you is bollocks. I'd bet you dollars to donuts it's a problem with international connections at their isp or somewhere very close to their network, and they don't want to admit to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Would it be possible to do a tracert to Mansions IP address? Finding out each exchange and checking thier down time. MetroNet you used to be able to do this. ADSL Broadband Checker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Would it be possible to do a tracert to Mansions IP address? Finding out each exchange and checking thier down time. MetroNet you used to be able to do this. ADSL Broadband Checker. Don't see your point, IP routing is dynamic not static, a packet from point A traveling to point B can (and will) take a different route each time it travels. It's like traveling accross the city, they can go different routes depending on traffic levels etc. Anyway, no isp would give you a answer about lost packets, not in their interest. Sorry if I'm a ip routing bore, but I do a lot of this:sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) I've invited Mansion to come and take a look at this thread, we'll see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Cheers guys - sorry - don't understand the technical side - but it seems clear (unanimous) that Mansion are talking crap!!! There were 65 people left, on just 2 tables (Burnley Joe and mine) there were 6 of us disconnected - extrapolating that out, about 22 people would have been disconnected and had the same problem - surely so many having problems, the issue must be very close to Mansion? The odds of all of us coincidentally having the same problem simultaneously must be astronomical!!! And Mansion telling me I was the only person affected is an absolute joke, and blatently untrue!!! Am still awaiting a response from my last email (over 24 hours now...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Have spoken to them a few hours ago and the call handler said that they sent the wrong email to me, which was the same they sent to you i presume Gaf, stating that i was the only one affected, he aplogised for thisand then he also went on to say it was about 10 players affected, mainly in the UK but one in the USA (I think he meant canada)! He said that it was with management and he would try and get a response by 8pm this evening, if not due to the seriousness of the situation they would respond tmrw We shall see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax_Monkey Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) it was about 10 players affected, mainly in the UK but one in the USA (I think he meant canada)! We shall see Sounds like more bullshit to me. The routing for someone in USA/Canada is completly different to those from the UK. for a start they don't have to cross the atlantic (or did the world move a bit last night). Plus how can you have only one player from one country affected?For that to happen he would have to be the only player from his country (unlikely but possible) or the only player from his area in the particular country (more likely and possible) in which case it is completly unconnected to the problems UK players had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Sounds like more bullshit to me. The routing for someone in USA/Canada is completly different to those from the UK. for a start they don't have to cross the atlantic (or did the world move a bit last night). Plus how can you have only one player from one country affected?For that to happen he would have to be the only player from his country (unlikely but possible) or the only player from his area in the particular country (more likely and possible) in which case it is completly unconnected to the problems UK players had. for one online game i used to play they had servers based in london and for several months users anywhere north of birmingham with a certain group of isps were routed thorugh servers in new york in order to get to london. strange things can happen with IP routing :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax_Monkey Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) for one online game i used to play they had servers based in london and for several months users anywhere north of birmingham with a certain group of isps were routed thorugh servers in new york in order to get to london. strange things can happen with IP routing :) Very true, I know a lot (if not all) of AOL customers are routed through USA, however regardless of how you are routed all Europeans must at some point either cross the Atlantic or go the much longer route through Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Rookie posted here that he couldn't log on at the time and he is in Canada :ok So don't know the technicalities of it, but the UK and Canada being impacted sounds plausible to me from what we know. Cheers for the info BJ - sounds promising :ok I was told by live support that I was the only person impacted - this was from the same person discussing the same issue at the same time with BJ!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Are the Mansion servers not in Gibraltar? :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Just called them as no response by 20.00 as advised. they apologised, but knew who i was as soon i called when they said "Is this burnley joe" Anyway, I was advised that it is with senior managment and they will respond sometime tmrw We will c Dont say that Gaf, they will blame the apes for chewing through the cables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Dont say that Gaf, they blame the apes for chewing the cables! Sounds a whole lot more believable than what they said first ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax_Monkey Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Are the Mansion servers not in Gibraltar? :unsure Quite possibly, the point I'm trying to make is that an issue affecting 1 person in one country is unlikely to be the same as that affecting another unless it is the final destination which is the problem. Also the balance doesn't make sense 9 players in the UK and 1 in the Americas? How can they possibly think they are connected, unless they only had one player from the American continents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaban Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) ooh, great post, sorry guys got to add my 2 pennies worth here Whilst I understand that you did not notice any other connection errors whilst using your internet at this time, this is in fact entirely normal. When playing poker packets of information are sent to and from your pc and the MANSION servers. If connection is lost at any point along the way then this information is lost completely. When surfing the web or using a chat programme this loss in connection is merely seen as a slight delay in the page loading, however, when playing poker any momentary loss in connection proves vital. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol what a croc of sh*te. If this is the case, nobody would ever rely on any internet session, that required a sticky session. strange things can happen with IP routing :) they certainly can you need to forget about DNS, it's not relevant. DNS is a one time lookup at the source, which assigns the destination IP address, there is no DNS performed on a packet at each step as it travels through the internet. Completely agree Anyway the Spanning Tree or what ever routing protocol they are using would sort it out faster. Also remember TCP is a connection oriented protocol after all, I'm 99% sure poker traffic isn't udp based. hmm, sort of agree. The app will use TCP. The routing protocol ( to transport the tcp) will be definetly IP (version4), I very much doubt decnet,ipx, appletalk ... etc is being used for this app. STP only relevant with backend ethernet connecton and used to determine master switches and paths to to the root switch In simple terms as each router sends packets to the next hop, it knows if they've been delivered, if not it'll try and send them again abet to a higher cost route. That's how the internet works. There is never just one step for routers to send packets along. Certainly not in a carrier class environment Half agree, the router doesnt care as long as the next hop ( or in the internet case path as it will most likely be using BGP) is available.Its the app, at the tcp layer that will control and check packet delivery.So this done between pc and server. But if the problem occurs very close to their end, (such as at their ISP) then there may not be an alternative route. True but then this would affect everyone and not just a small subset of users I'll not bore you with the details of how split horizons and how route posioning would make sure your traffic would be delivered. Oh go on But rest assured what they've told you is bollocks. Completely agree AJ :clap I'd bet you dollars to donuts it's a problem with international connections at their isp or somewhere very close to their network, and they don't want to admit to it. Very Possible, or possibly all those affected had cookie sessions to the same server Either way its not right is it and I think you need to be compensated in the right way More poker /network posts like this please Mike ( Cisco Certified Network Profressional / Poker Amatuer ) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) The mansion affiliate manager has assured me he will get on to the poker side of Mansion about this tomorrow. I have him on MSN, so I'll let you know more when I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Cheers Paul :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Mansion Crash (AND LIES) Quote: Originally Posted by AJ I'd bet you dollars to donuts it's a problem with international connections at their isp or somewhere very close to their network, and they don't want to admit to it. Very Possible, or possibly all those affected had cookie sessions to the same server Cookies? I thought we were talking about donuts? :unsure I'm confused! :cry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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