Defining/Refining your game

[georgej]

I am a total newbie to poker - still get mixed up about what beats what, but can anyone tell me how i can guage my play? I have been unable to play betfair/Willhill poker because i am constantly losing the connection, even though i can still surf online - so i am using pacific poker. Been in a few tounaments and mostly finish in the top 30% Can anyone suggest a way of telling how good or bad my play is (without going by how much money i am losing) so that i can try to improve on some areas. One thing i am definately not good at is closing. Had a 10 seat tournament and got 2nd place, but it was pretty obvious that i had problems betting thousands preflop with 2,5o - it's just not in my nature. Any advice appreciated (even smart ass comments) George

[laidbackbloke]

Re: Defining/Refining your game Hi George I wrote in the poker novice questions thread how I play heads up..... post no#27 http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15669&page=2&pp=20 This thread has some advice as well for when you are starting off http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15159&page=1 Have a look at them for starters and then let us know any specific questions you have :ok

[guesswest]

Re: Defining/Refining your game Can anyone suggest a way of telling how good or bad my play is (without going by how much money i am losing) so that i can try to improve on some areas. There plenty way better players than me so I dunno that I'm qualified to comment, but one thing I would say is, you can't really gauge your play without getting into money. Theres all different kinds of ways of playing good poker, money (whether you play it because you care about the money or not), is how you keep track, its what we have instead of a ranking system. If you're winning money over a long period of time you're doing something right, and vice versa if you're losing. Best basic poker book I ever read is 'Winning low-limit Hold'em' by Lee Jones, definitely worth picking up, even if you don't play limit.

[georgej]

Re: Defining/Refining your game Thanks for that guys. Will try a few more tournaments and play a little looser. It really sucks when you're at a table with 500 chips and suddenly get thrown into a game with some on 5000. Maybe i should change my handle to sharkbait. cheers :cheers

[Arjonius]

Re: Defining/Refining your game As a fairly new player myself, I try to watch various things. A major one is how often I'm correct vs. incorrect when I bet believing I have the best hand.

[philossify]

Re: Defining/Refining your game Hi Arjonius, You are right, watching the play of the hand and the outcome and reviewing whether your earlier decision was correct/incorrect is important. Even on hands that I've folded on, its amazing how much I find I can pick up by continuing to observe the play. In fact I think I lose most when my concentration has ebbed and I don't watch the game after I've folded. It can be irritating when you have (for example) decided to fold an AQo before the flop against a big raise in front of you and the flop comes up AQQ or somesuch. If you then see that the raiser had (say) AKs your decision was arguably a good one. When you watch the end of the game and discover the raiser had 72s or somesuch then often your decison to fold was still the right one, however remember to shove a note down against that player so that next time you have a bit more info to base your stay/fold decision on. Of couse next time they well have AA, just because he/she plays badly overall doesn't stop them hitting a good hand sometimes :-). On the previous question, as has been said, poker is a game where the overall score is kept using money. If you are playing the game more skillfully than your opposition then over the long haul you will show a profit. IMHO, biggest trick is not losing too much (or any) money whilst developing your skills :-). Second (even harder) trick IMHO is upping your overall profit by increasing the stakes you play for (aka finding your correct position in the food chain - hehehe). Me, I don't think I'm a shark (probably never will be) but think I've risen above minnow, so in an ideal world I'd be looking for loads of minnows with lots of money to burn. lol

[georgej]

Re: Defining/Refining your game Unfortunately, i don't think i'll be a quick learner on this. I had Qsp, 8d with only 500 in chips left, facing 3 all with over 2,000. Flop Asp 5h Jsp One of them bet 250 - I folded Turn 10sp River Ksp Would have had a royal flush if i'd hung on in there. Only good thing is as i was on partypoker and not another site, i didn't have a chance of getting the Jackpot. Maybe i should just change my signon to sharkbait.

[laidbackbloke]

Re: Defining/Refining your game

Unfortunately, i don't think i'll be a quick learner on this. I had Qsp, 8d with only 500 in chips left, facing 3 all with over 2,000. Flop Asp 5h Jsp One of them bet 250 - I folded Turn 10sp River Ksp Would have had a royal flush if i'd hung on in there. Only good thing is as i was on partypoker and not another site, i didn't have a chance of getting the Jackpot. Maybe i should just change my signon to sharkbait.

Actually George, that would be an automatic fold for me if I had been in your position, so I'd say you played it right. Obviously in this case it turned out that you would have won but the chances of you getting a royal flush, or even a flush or a straight were slim. Far more often than not it would be a losing bet............ but obviously its frustrating when you see that you would have won ....... or that you would have hit a big hand. If your hole cards had been both spades, or you had an open ended straight draw or better yet both, then it might have been worth while having a gamble and going all-in. But from the position you were in you made correct choice. Although it will inevitably work out occasionally, Crossing your fingers and hoping for runner, runner straight, or runner, runner flush is just going to lose you a lot of money in the long run. I've never had a Royal flush, but I had a similar situation to you once when i was playing in a STT. When the turn card came, I had a pair of Queens and a gutshot Royal flush draw. One of my opponents put in a big raise that would have committed me to the pot if i called. I was sure that he had made his straight (I was right, he had) and still had plenty of chips, so knowing i was behind I decided to fold rather than go-allin with a gutshot straight draw that would only split the pot, and a flush draw that i would only make about 20% of the time. ............................. 1 guy called the bet after i had folded and of course the jack of hearts arrived on the river which would have given me a royal flush . Their cards were turned over, and they both had made a straight on the turn, so it was a split pot. I won the tournament in the end though so folding didn't harm me too much and it was the correct decision ................Still pissed me off that i didn't get the royal flush though

[laidbackbloke]

Re: Defining/Refining your game One other little point, You don't say what size the blinds were, or what position you were in, but If I was short stacked and the blinds were substantial, i would have folded Q8o Pre-flop, unless i was the BB. If the blinds were small than I might play it in the SB, but otherwise I would have folded it pre-flop.

[georgej]

Re: Defining/Refining your game I was the BB. 50/25 but the clock had just run out so the SB was also 50 next hand. Thankfully no-one raised preflop. Was in 4th - finished in 4th I'm not sure, but do other sites have the high hand and bad beat jackpots for all games (except tournaments) while in pp you need to be in the correct room?

[guesswest]

Re: Defining/Refining your game Undoubtably a good fold, even by the loosest players standards. You didn't have pot odds on picking up the flush with one spade needed, never mind two - and even then you weren't drawing to the nut flush, which is a pretty big issue when you're playing from one card. Even supposing you did have pot odds, if you're shortstack in tournament play they have little if any significance. If you'd called that bet and caught the improbable runner runner you needed, everyone at the table would have thought you were either the luckiest man alive, or a psychic. I'd say, generally, if you don't frequently see the board come down in such a way that it would have made a huge hand for you if you hadn't folded, then you're playing badly. Definitely a good laydown :)