kauto star retired

[erhaab1965]

Re: kauto star retired Didn't Al Ferof's owner win the KG a few times in the 90s?

[The Saint]

Didn't Al Ferof's owner win the KG a few times in the 90s?

One Man won it twice in the mid 90s... Think that's the same owner. Similar colours if not! Never really rated Al Ferof... Was off the radar for my ttf but will take a second look!

[bowles10]

Re: kauto star retired Al Ferof is owned by John Hales, with the famous yellow jumper and red diamond carried by the likes of One Man It was well known that the race (Arkle) at Cheltenham was going to be too short for it and it needs 3m to show how good it is. It should be thereabouts this year in the top class races.

[who?me?]

Re: kauto star retired

I think you could make a film about Kauto Star, perhaps i will suggest it to the owner! The reason i know a bit is that my dad is friends with the owner and although i get info 2nd hand, it is not always correct (as per my comment on KG last year about the horse not running!, albeit that is what they felt at the time until nearer the race) Clive bought the local golf club to me about 15 years ago, which is why they know each other and in 2002, they owned a horse together named Clarendon which they bought from the flat to go over hurdles,and subsequently fences. The horse ended up as favourite for the lanzarote at Kempton on shocking ground and then went chasing. It did ok but suffered injuries when falling and never really recovered so they sold it to someone to look after it. It even ran against Old Vic in its early days. I've met Clive on a few occasions at the races and he is a really nice bloke. he is worth a few quid though and lives on the Wentworth estate. I don't pretend to know all about the Nicholls situation but it seems to be the opinion that he won't be having any more horses with him. As an aside, Nicholls team really fancy Al Ferof for the KG this year.

Always interesting to know where people get their info from! I've seen Clive Smith a few times at Newmarket and, as you say, he always comes across as a nice guy. I also knew he'd made a lot of money from building and selling golf courses. Well, you need to have made a lot of money to be able to afford to buy some of these horses. Very interesting to know they really fancy Al Ferof for the KG this year. He was in my list of Top 10 NH Horses to Follow last season and I saw him winning the Henry VIII Novices Chase at Sandown last year as I nearly always go to Tingle Creek day. Will be interesting to see if and when Clive buys any more horses separately from the Racing Club that Rio belongs to.

[who?me?]

Re: kauto star retired

Al Ferof is owned by John Hales, with the famous yellow jumper and red diamond carried by the likes of One Man It was well known that the race (Arkle) at Cheltenham was going to be too short for it and it needs 3m to show how good it is. It should be thereabouts this year in the top class races.

I see he's been entered in the Paddy Power - is 2m4f going to be too short then for him or is it being just used as a prep for the KG, do you think?

[bowles10]

Re: kauto star retired

I see he's been entered in the Paddy Power - is 2m4f going to be too short then for him or is it being just used as a prep for the KG' date=' do you think?[/quote'] Paddy power is 2m 5f and feels like 3m at kempton!! I think it will be a prep race as it will be a hot race, however it would have to be 1-2-3 to be considered to then go for the KG. The Betfair is another possible target but the ground is often a concern at that meeting The KG looks open this year now that Long Run is no longer seen as a great (i still think it would have beaten Kauto last year with better jumping!). Sizing E may run in the KG also making it interesting. Should be a great season 2012/13.

[billvernon]

Re: kauto star retired So Kauto Star is now retired - it was that news that kind of sign posted that the JUMPS Season was here again for me.Brilliant horse will miss him.So glad they are looking after him ,if a horse deserved a great safe retirement then Kauto Star is that horse. On a side note - I have noted that after a horse has won the Gold cup the next year they do not seem to perform so well but perform bettter the season after that. Going on that idea then I seriously think you guys should consider Long Run for his races this year including the King George and the Gold Cup.He has been there at the end of play in his last races and basically was the next best alongside Kauto - I really think the season bounce factor figured in his running last season and do consider that so long as he is fit and well and now stronger and rested then he is bang in contention for those Grade 1 races. I will be interested in the jumps top ten competition again and as some of you guys know will be avidly getting more involved and more excited towards the Cheltenham Festival 2013 - This site is my favourite and I feel I got to know you a bit these last few years and I am looking forward to all your posts and suggestions. Happy Jumps season guys Its good to be back .

[BillyHills]

Re: kauto star retired Nice to hear from you Bill:ok

[bowles10]

I think you could make a film about Kauto Star, perhaps i will suggest it to the owner! The reason i know a bit is that my dad is friends with the owner and although i get info 2nd hand, it is not always correct (as per my comment on KG last year about the horse not running!, albeit that is what they felt at the time until nearer the race) Clive bought the local golf club to me about 15 years ago, which is why they know each other and in 2002, they owned a horse together named Clarendon which they bought from the flat to go over hurdles,and subsequently fences. The horse ended up as favourite for the lanzarote at Kempton on shocking ground and then went chasing. It did ok but suffered injuries when falling and never really recovered so they sold it to someone to look after it. It even ran against Old Vic in its early days. I've met Clive on a few occasions at the races and he is a really nice bloke. he is worth a few quid though and lives on the Wentworth estate. I don't pretend to know all about the Nicholls situation but it seems to be the opinion that he won't be having any more horses with him. As an aside, Nicholls team really fancy Al Ferof for the KG this year.

Seems I was right then, they made their feelings public today Dressage career for kauto then z!

[jayalexander]

Re: kauto star retired Twitter's awash with Kauto related tweets. Seems that people are pissed off that he's now going dressage instead of retiring outright! Apparently one of the bookies if offering 60/1 that he'll win a gold at Rio. Could be quite a good bet!

[NeilM]

Awful. Truly a disgrace. If I was Paul Bittar, I'd kick off the process of warning off Clive Smith for life. Genuinely awful. To reduce a champion to the status of a prancing puppet has left me speechless. I can't express how much I dislike dressage: one of only two sports I genuinely loathe (and I am at least prepared to trade tennis for a few quid). I'd bin it tomorrow if I had any kind of influence on sport in the UK.

[erhaab1965]

Re: kauto star retired I've only read what was reported in the Racing Post and based on that , I've found Paul Nicholls reaction to be disappointing. I dont think he should have aired his dirty laundry in public. I have always been an admirer of his achievements but i went off him as a person about 10 years ago when he made derogatory comments in public about Ollie Carter the owner of Champion Chase hopeful Venn Ottery whom Nicholls trained. I think its very unprofessional of him to be denegrating his owners. Obviously Nicholls was disappointed about the Kauto decision but isn't the owner entitled to do as he pleases ? Over the past decade Clive Smith has helped make PN champion trainer and he's repaid by this !

[jayalexander]

Re: kauto star retired I know Kauto will forever be held in racing folklore, but if he does turn out to be an Olympic dressage champion, surely that's another achievement that will only enhance his reputation? It may also be better for him than standing out in a field all day?

[BillyHills]

Re: kauto star retired Not the first time Nicholls throws his toys out of the pram, i honestly dont see what the owner has done wrong here? Maybe i'm wrong but no one kicked up a fuss when Neptune Collonges went on to dressage did they, and he won his first competition! I firmly believe these horses need a life after racing, they have been trained to the minute for years and just cant be let loose in a field, their whole diet has been structured for doing a job all of their lives. Look at Denman going team chasing, Straw Bear has won several events at Dressage. Absolutley nothing wrong with that, they can perform until they are 18/19 years of age at a high level, surely Mr Smith has every right to go down that road. Its obvious him and Nicholls havnt seen eye to eye for ages and i reckon the trainer is making way too much of this, like he always does.

[gord]

Re: kauto star retired got to agree with everything you said billy it would be far worse to have the horse going mad in a field

[NeilM]

It would have perhaps been better to send him team chasing, doing point to points etc. Dressage is just so unbecoming: I think that is what a lot of the screeching is about. An awful of people- who don't share my visceral loathing of it- will see it as something of a come down. As for Nicholls, it does appear to be a toys/pram moment. It almost looks as though he virtually kicked the horse out.

[bowles10]

Re: kauto star retired

Not the first time Nicholls throws his toys out of the pram, i honestly dont see what the owner has done wrong here? Maybe i'm wrong but no one kicked up a fuss when Neptune Collonges went on to dressage did they, and he won his first competition! I firmly believe these horses need a life after racing, they have been trained to the minute for years and just cant be let loose in a field, their whole diet has been structured for doing a job all of their lives. Look at Denman going team chasing, Straw Bear has won several events at Dressage. Absolutley nothing wrong with that, they can perform until they are 18/19 years of age at a high level, surely Mr Smith has every right to go down that road. Its obvious him and Nicholls havnt seen eye to eye for ages and i reckon the trainer is making way too much of this, like he always does.

spot on graham

Awful. Truly a disgrace. If I was Paul Bittar, I'd kick off the process of warning off Clive Smith for life. Genuinely awful. To reduce a champion to the status of a prancing puppet has left me speechless. I can't express how much I dislike dressage: one of only two sports I genuinely loathe (and I am at least prepared to trade tennis for a few quid). I'd bin it tomorrow if I had any kind of influence on sport in the UK.

Neil, you dont know the facts, believe me this goes back a while By the way, is it right that Nicholls was selling "breakfast with Kauto" up to last week at his yard, thats what i call a disgrace. He was making money out of the horse. It's clive's horse, he paid for it, he pays the high fees that PN charges and no doubt some of PN's millions have been down to just Kauto Star as the main star of his yard over 6 years. Nicholls comes across as a bully to me in terms of how he reacts and also a spoilt child

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: kauto star retired

Not the first time Nicholls throws his toys out of the pram, i honestly dont see what the owner has done wrong here? Maybe i'm wrong but no one kicked up a fuss when Neptune Collonges went on to dressage did they, and he won his first competition! I firmly believe these horses need a life after racing, they have been trained to the minute for years and just cant be let loose in a field, their whole diet has been structured for doing a job all of their lives. Look at Denman going team chasing, Straw Bear has won several events at Dressage. Absolutley nothing wrong with that, they can perform until they are 18/19 years of age at a high level, surely Mr Smith has every right to go down that road. Its obvious him and Nicholls havnt seen eye to eye for ages and i reckon the trainer is making way too much of this, like he always does.

spot on graham Neil, you dont know the facts, believe me this goes back a while By the way, is it right that Nicholls was selling "breakfast with Kauto" up to last week at his yard, thats what i call a disgrace. He was making money out of the horse. It's clive's horse, he paid for it, he pays the high fees that PN charges and no doubt some of PN's millions have been down to just Kauto Star as the main star of his yard over 6 years. Nicholls comes across as a bully to me in terms of how he reacts and also a spoilt child

Nicholls is an egotistical bell end. He should go back to training poor quality horses and get some grounding. He certainly doesn't have an ounce of the humility of Cecil for example. Breakfast with Kauto - that's a fcukin disgrace if it wasn't discussed with the owner and probably wasn't. Nicholls needs to know, the owners are the ones that keep horse racing going and not him. He should know his place and be put firmly in it.

[bowles10]

Re: kauto star retired

Nicholls is an egotistical bell end. He should go back to training poor quality horses and get some grounding. He certainly doesn't have an ounce of the humility of Cecil for example. Breakfast with Kauto - that's a fcukin disgrace if it wasn't discussed with the owner and probably wasn't. Nicholls needs to know, the owners are the ones that keep horse racing going and not him. He should know his place and be put firmly in it.

Agreed Paul, the racing press will no doubt go in Nicholls favour on this which is a shame. I think the owner would have kept this away from the press but that isnt Nicholls style in todays world of social networks etc I've always felt uneasy about Nicholls and used to swerve his selections in the RP but back the ones he never mentioned, that was profitable! Ruby is another reason for Nicholls rise and success also.

[NeilM]

Neil, you dont know the facts, believe me this goes back a while

I'm quite up to speed with it to be fair. My objection to Clive Smith is that he's gone down the dressage route, nothing else. Perhaps I was slightly OTT in suggesting he be warned off for it but I can't stand dressage for several reasons and have nothing but the lowest regard for owners who go down this route: I don't think they are suitable individuals to own a racehorse. The previous/ongoing tensions between Nicholls/Smith haven't had any colouring on my opinion and in other circumstances I'd come down on Nicholls because he's a bit too up himself for my liking and I do say later on that it appears to be a toys out of the pram moment. One wonders how much Nicholls' final invoice will be.

[Aidymac]

Re: kauto star retired Paul Nicholls has gone wayyyyyyy down in my ratings after reading all this. Eat some humble pie Nicholls ya hure! Earning his fortunes because of Clive Smith and Ruby, and then he behaves as if he is the owner of Kauto, when let's face it, Kauto would have been a superstar regardless of what trainer trained it. I also think Kauto would be much happier doing something, rather than being stuck in a field eating grass, don't ye?

[who?me?]

Re: kauto star retired http://www.racinguk.com/news/article/15762/kauto-leaves-nicholls-yard Shame that it came to this. Does Paul Nicholls not think Kauto will be suited to dressage? Clive Smith has said for some time that Kauto Star would not just be left in a field nor would he just be a hack so bit surprised that Ditcheat seem to have hoped Kauto would have been left with them permanently.

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: kauto star retired Mr Nicholls was simply looking after the horse and am sure he was paid handsomely for doing a great job, Mr Nicholls and the rest of the yard got attached to an animal that wasn't theirs. The End.

[bowles10]

Re: kauto star retired

Mr Nicholls was simply looking after the horse and am sure he was paid handsomely for doing a great job, Mr Nicholls and the rest of the yard got attached to an animal that wasn't theirs. The End.

and was selling breakfast to go with it :)

[jayalexander]

Kauto will still be paraded at kempton on boxing day, so it's not the end of the world.

[who?me?]

Re: kauto star retired

Nicholls ... certainly doesn't have an ounce of the humility of Cecil for example.

It must also have been very hard for the staff at Warren Place to see Frankel go, not to mention Sir Henry Cecil. I know Frankel wasn't at Warren Place for as long as Kauto Star was at Ditcheat but the staff there will have been very attached to him. Don't remember such Tweets about Frankel leaving Warren Place as have appeared about Kauto Star leaving Ditcheat.

[jayalexander]

Re: kauto star retired To be fair I think the Frankel issue is much different. He's going to spread his oats and stay in the horse racing sphere, whereas Kauto is going elsewhere.

[erhaab1965]

Re: kauto star retired

I've only read what was reported in the Racing Post and based on that ' date=' I've found Paul Nicholls reaction to be disappointing. [i']I dont think he should have aired his dirty laundry in public. I have always been an admirer of his achievements but i went off him as a person about 10 years ago when he made derogatory comments in public about Ollie Carter the owner of Champion Chase hopeful Venn Ottery whom Nicholls trained. I think its very unprofessional of him to be denegrating his owners. Obviously Nicholls was disappointed about the Kauto decision but isn't the owner entitled to do as he pleases ? Over the past decade Clive Smith has helped make PN champion trainer and he's repaid by this !

Trainer's lose stable stars and large strings of horses from time to time for one reason or another, whenever this happens its obviously disappointing for the trainer and staff concerned, we have all read about them over the years and whenever we do the trainer always thanks the owner for getting the opportunity to train the horse / horses and best wishes for the future, even if it's through gritted teeth. Other members have hinted he has acted similar in the past, quite frankly his attitude stinks based on what is currently public knowledge.

[NeilM]

Apparently Nicholls used 'foul language' http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=1024606

[fintron]

Re: kauto star retired Its all getting very embarrassing, both for Nicholls and Smith, airing their dirty laundtry in public. Its the owners horse, he can do whatever he wants with it, but the bit at the end where Smith is moaning about Nicholls pronunciation of the horses name......wtf!!!!!