Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Recently re-read the Isiris Unveiled book which revealed the bookies they thought certain trainers had close links to. Just wondering whether anyone has any up to date info on this and which bookies they see as being 'connected'? Isiris suggested A Newcombe to be linked to a certain bookie. This bookie had a horse of AN's on the AW priced at 12/1 compared to the remainder of the Market at 14/1. The horse of course won Just wondering whether this can be seen as coincidental or whether anyone has any recent evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Recently re-read the Isiris Unveiled book which revealed the bookies they thought certain trainers had close links to. Just wondering whether anyone has any up to date info on this and which bookies they see as being 'connected'? Isiris suggested A Newcombe to be linked to a certain bookie. This bookie had a horse of AN's on the AW priced at 12/1 compared to the remainder of the Market at 14/1. The horse of course won Just wondering whether this can be seen as coincidental or whether anyone has any recent evidence. 14/1 v 12/1.. That's so insignificant it's not even worth bothering with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Ok, ignoring the example, the original question still applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? The old classic is Ladbrokes with Ballydoyle It's clearly true though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Yeah you have ladbrokes with ballydoyle. Although this stretches further than some may think. Magnier (head of coolmoore stud and main provider to ballydoyle) owns a share of ladbrokes so inside info from ballydoyle is inevitable. Magnie's daughter is married to David Wachman so bare in mind ladbrokes going shorter on any horses from that yard also. Magnier's share partner in ladbrokes is JP McManus so again that indeed creates more inside interest for laddies. This is all down to owners and bookies rather than trainers and bookies. Does anyone else have any other links between owners/trainers and bookies or of gambling stables in general? This is one thing that renders form study useless so the more we can share the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? This is one thing that renders form study useless so the more we can share the better. How does it render form study useless? It just means that some bookies will be shorter than others about certain horses. If you're basing your "form study" on prices then it isn't really form study is it? It's more looking for value than studying form Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? What I meant was that if a bookmaker was informed of a 'good thing' then we may be able to spot this with knowledge of trainer/bookie links but not necessarily through form study. I'm not for 1 second disregarding form study. Just putting a case forward for being able to identify potential inside knowledge of a horse fully expected to win. Maybe it's easier to think of it in reverse. A horse could have the best form in the race but if we know a link between yard and bookie, and that bookie goes top price in the horse then we could rule that horse out of equations as it would appear someone in the know is negative of the horses chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtrains Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Don't know if anybody read RP SUNDAY, very interesting interview with Mike Dillion of Ladbrokes. Talks about poss links with Ballydoyle says he has none then refers to Pour Moi (laddys went 8/1 AP when most firms were 25/1) says he thought alot of the form and that he took a bold view. Fair play to the guy and if anyone gets time i would suggest reading it. Still didn't change my view though i believe they have links it happens to often for there not to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Well wasn't Pour Moi owned/part owned by Coolmore? I know he is now, and by Monjeu Also, at Royal Ascot they went top price about So You Think on the day and took a fair bit of cash. Obvioulsy he got beat by Rewilding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Precisely. Anyone know of any more of these links that may exist? Any common in NH racing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? And yes TheRat, Pour Moi was a case in point as to what i mentioned earlier about the link to coolmoore rather than js ballydoyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Well wasn't Pour Moi owned/part owned by Coolmore? I know he is now, and by Monjeu Also, at Royal Ascot they went top price about So You Think on the day and took a fair bit of cash. Obvioulsy he got beat by Rewilding ******* hell are you people reading what you're writing here? :rollin Are you seriously suggesting that a bookie went top price on So You Think because their connections knew that it wasn't going to win? It got beaten by a neck for God's sake:lol Dear oh dear. The worst thing about the internet is the spurious conspiracy theories but this is the most laughable I've heard so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? At a price of 4/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Brilliant. I'm off to bed now (if I can stop myself from laughing long enough to get to sleep):lol A fukking neck:rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? It may have had a niggle? Not saying it's a conspiracy theory either Why is it so mental to think a bookie might have an inside line on a horse well being before a race? No laughable at all Not saying a was a massively engineered plan for god sake like you have just assumed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? I believe it is a valid argument and the original point of this thread was to see if any other 'links' were apparent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? If you have found a horse you think is well overpriced you back it, doesn't mean it will definately win. What I am saying if they hear he might not be 100% then go after him You have taken what I am saying well out of context suggesting I think there is a massive conspiracy theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osfcdazza Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? I'm agreeing with you mate. If you remember that race as well....jan Vermeer was entered as SYT's pacemaker but completely missed the break and then bumped into SYT whilst trying to get to the front. Not the clean operation that ballydoyle normally execute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? I know that was @ Onedunme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweedy Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? ******* hell are you people reading what you're writing here? Dear oh dear. The worst thing about the internet is the spurious conspiracy theories but this is the most laughable I've heard so far. So you`re saying that Horse Racing is not fixed in any way and horses win or lose strictly on their individual merits? That`s definitely laughable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? So you`re saying that Horse Racing is not fixed in any way and horses win or lose strictly on their individual merits? That`s definitely laughable! Nowhere did I say that. I think you'd better get your carer to explain my posts to you if you're too thick to work them out for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Magnier ,McManus and Lewis have a sizeable shareholding in Ladbrokes which suggests they would have a reasonable if not better than most idea of how Ballydoyle horses are likely to run, so may pass on information to odds compilers at Ladbrokes,after all it would be in their interest. But this happens in most businesses so it wouldn't be much of a surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweedy Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Nowhere did I say that. I think you'd better get your carer to explain my posts to you if you're too thick to work them out for yourself. In which case it is perfectly reasonable to assume that since the races aren`t straight, information is being shared as outlined in this thread. Not such a big leap is it? Sadly, today is my carers day off, leaving me free to roam the internet posting wildly speculative claims about the legitamacy of horse racing and the results of same, but I will ask tomorrow if I could have your post broken down into sentences that I can digest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Horse racing is a lot more "cleaner" these days than many other sports. Surely there are some scam artists, but all in all you can count on lots of people in the game and you know most of them are trying. The problem is 99% of the people can't make ANY profit whatsoever and are absolutely clueless with the game, so they excuse their bad punting ability with conspiracies and similar. At the same time football the so called king of sports is full of fixed games and terrible refereeing (Lyon going through/Ajax blatant axe against Real as most recent example), but nobody would even mention it, cos "you know .. how can football be corrupt? .. it's watched by so many people .. it's impossible". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? In which case it is perfectly reasonable to assume that since the races aren`t straight, information is being shared as outlined in this thread. Not such a big leap is it? Sadly, today is my carers day off, leaving me free to roam the internet posting wildly speculative claims about the legitamacy of horse racing and the results of same, but I will ask tomorrow if I could have your post broken down into sentences that I can digest. That's a good lad. Sorry to hear that the economic cuts are restricting your care time.:lol I have no doubt that information is being shared. I'm struggling to see how this information is to be harnessed and turned into a profit in a way that this thread suggests it might. I've been given three instances on this thread where the bookies prices [bappeared (in glorious technicoloured hindsight) to indicate something. Two of those examples are a bag of shite and I'd like to see someone quoting a live example at some stage in the next 12 months to demonstrate it's usefulness. Try and process this thought, if you, me and half the internet world know that Ladbrokes have a little bit of inside knowledge on a certain horse running this Saturday, would it be unreasonable of me to suggest that every bookmaker in the land would also know this fact? Given the obvious answer to that, do you not think that these bookies might be keeping a close eye on what price Ladbrokes are offering on said horse? Or are we somehow expecting ladbrokes to be pricing the beast up at 2/1 when it's 10s everywhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEDUNME Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Horse racing is a lot more "cleaner" these days than many other sports. Surely there are some scam artists, but all in all you can count on lots of people in the game and you know most of them are trying. . Ooooooooh, talk about bad timing:\ Jockeys Jimmy Quinn, Kirsty Milczarek, Greg Fairley and Paul Doe were all found in breach of the rules at a British Horseracing Authority hearing into alleged corruption, the findings of which were published today. http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/11/12/14/RACING_Jockeys_Snap.html&BID=464 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLL Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? I think people read a bit too much into the Ladbrooks/Coolmore thing to be honest. They're normally very cautious about their pricing across the board (stingy bastards) which is to be expected because they lay large bets, so them being 1-2 points shorter on a horse is probably coincidence rather than conspiracy most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpo Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? I know this is completely off subject but I was wondering today about professional tipsters and stables. Do you think well known tipsters get inside information from stables? People such as Pricewise and Hugh Taylor for example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLL Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? I know this is completely off subject but I was wondering today about professional tipsters and stables. Do you think well known tipsters get inside information from stables? People such as Pricewise and Hugh Taylor for example I wouldn't think it was likely, most trainers are loyal to their owners and they wouldn't want information about when their horse is running in form going to tipsters would they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Re: Trainers linked to which bookies? Ooooooooh, talk about bad timing:\ http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/11/12/14/RACING_Jockeys_Snap.html&BID=464 Old news though. It's been much better since those were hit with bans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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