erhaab1965
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Posts posted by erhaab1965
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Re: The Jockey Thread Yes Young Joseph has relieved a lot of stick on other forums which includes an an extraordinary long list of comments in the Racing Post. Australia ? He was the best horse in the Epsom Derby , even Ana O'Brien would have won on him.
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Re: The Jockey Thread What a fabulous ride mutiple Group 1 winning Jockey Ryan Moore gave on The Great Gatsby , last to first. I have said for many years that Coolmore should have him as first choice rider. Young Joseph is OK but vastly inexperienced and does not do justice sometimes , yes he has won many Gr 1 armchair rides but he has also lost many that he shouldn't have lost. Again this would have wiped off a few million off the horse's stud value. A top operation should have the best available jockey , when will they see nepotism doesn't work. Maybe they should have had Young Ana O'Brien ride Australia instead. Joking aside , now that Jamie Spencer is available , he'd be a much better choice for first jockey or maybe have Young Joseph and S Heffernan switch positions.
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Re: Apprentice watch Forgot to add ,Sir M Prescott is one of the old school trainers. His apprentices are given time to become experienced , he uses them to his advantage. He is synonymous for producing horses to win several races in succession , in order to maintain the sequence he will switch from his stable jockey to his apprentice so they can take some weight off. In interviews he has said he regards just one pound a significant factor between winning and losing. Take a look at Rosie Jessop , she has ridden for him for about 7 years and is still claiming. Before her you will remember Mark Worrell who rode for him for many years too , unfortunately he quit racing for some reason , maybe because of what I have said in my previous post.
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Re: Apprentice watch On various threads I have said it may be damaging to an apprentices career if their trainer(s) exhaust the claim in quick time. History has shown ( in my case nearly 30 years od following the sport) that jockeys who lose their claim very quickly often end up with less desirable mounts and sometimes get only no hopers to ride. Obviously there are exceptions to what I've said such as Frankie Dettori and Jamie Spencer. However over the years we have seen dozens of young jockeys come and then disappear , this I think can be attributed to losing their claim and then no longer being desirable. I know some members on here have been following the sport for less than a decade , so I use recent examples : Jamie Mackay , son of Allen MacKay an accomplished jockey who only retired in the last few years. Jamie exploded onto the scene and was highly sought after for big handicap plots , he was often used bt MC Pipe and M Prescott. When his claim ran out he struggled , even taking a couple of seasons out , since he returned he has not had much success or rides. Antony Beech , same as above ,winning big handicaps whilst claiming but after losing it his career went downhill. Saleem Golam , joint Champion Apprentice with Hayley Turner , downhill since. Alex Greaves , red hot whilst claiming , dubbed "Queen of the Sand ",immediately after losing her claim nobody wanted to know her. She rode mostly for her husband for the remainder of her career which included an Epsom Derby ride and winning the Nunthorpe Group1. There's dozens more. Traditionally an apprebticeship will last 3 to 5 years , just like in the work place ( up until the last 10/20 years where they have reduced the learning time). Trainers will give them no hope rides in order for them to gain race experience. Those that showed promise were jocked on fancied horses for races like the Ebor , Ces, Big sprint H'caps etc because the 7/5/3lb made the difference between winning a big prize and losing. often the jockeys would be sent overseas in order not to have anymore winners and prolong their claim. Of the ones riding today look at R Tart and MJ Murphey , they were red hot in their debut year but they have become less attractive now they're 3lb claimers , when they soon lose their claim they might have even less rides because of their limited riding experience. Why book 22 year old with no claim and less than a thousand career rides when you can book somebody who has ridden in 4000 races? O Murphy looks to have a decent career ahead of him as he's been snapped up by the Qataris , however plenty of other apprentices won't be as lucky , especially the female jockeys who traditionally fade away once their claim has gone. I may have written this better and given better examples but do you think trainers are damaging young jockeys careers by over using them to win minor races?
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Re: The Jockey Thread
Well' date=' he lost his claim recently. Maybe it has something to do with that?[/quote'] Thanks for reply jayalexander. I was thinking it may be because he is not experienced and good enough yet. He was made no 1 despite having Cremlin apprenticed. I've been meaning for quite a while to start a debate based on your reply. Will do it on your popular Apprentice Watch thread. -
Re: The Jockey Thread Anyone know what's happened between Mick Channon and his no 1 stable jockey Willie Twiston Davies ? He's only ridden 3 times for Channon in the past fortnight . The long term stable jockeys Hitchcott , Bishop and Cremlin have been getting the bulk of the rides.
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Re: The Jockey Thread
Fantastic to see him win a Gr1. In a few years its highly likely he will be top class. He's a name a I search out for when I open the racing papers.Great to see D Tudhope ride a double yesterday at Ripon which included the Big race the Great St Wilfred. keep your eye on him he's a jockey of the future -
Re: The Trainers Thread
Great to see him win a Gr1 , in my opinion he's one of the best new trainers in the country. This big win have probably elevated him into the top 10 , only achieved by the racing elite.Great to see up and coming trainer D O'Mera in good form. He won the Great St Wilfred and a few days earlier won a Gr3 in Ireland. I've said it a few times in the past that in time he will become a top 20 trainer in time , infact he' s currently in the top 10 and again has surpassed the £1 million barrier. This is incredible considering he has mostly handicappers and low class horses. Historically everyone in the top 20 has a few listed/group winners , so what he has achieved in his short career is amazing. In the last couple of years he has attracted a few big owners , if his trend continues , it wouldn't surprise me if he challenges R Fahey and M Johnston for the title of top northern trainer. -
Re: The Jockey Thread Just searched for confirmation in what I have said and checked on the history of Pawan , one of the most popular horses in the past decade ( in the cult sense ). Pawan raced 168 times , Ann rode him in all his starts except for the first 6 races. The first few dozen races she had no claim , then in February 2006 she went back to having a 7lb claim , which has now been reduced to 5lbs as of 2014. This doesn't totally confirm what I have said but its pretty much what I have alluded.
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Re: The Jockey Thread
A jockey who I have always followed is Ann Stokell , not because she is considered a good / successful jockey but the fact she is a trier and when she wins its one for the little guys. I think she is a similar age to myself , mid to late 40s. I first noticed her name during the late 80s when she was more prolific in the national Hunt scene , at the time she must have been under 25 and therefore if I recall correctly she claimed 7lb. As far as I am aware she did not / or still has ridden many winners. By the early 90s she must have reached her late 20s and therefore lost her right to claim. Back to the last few years , her claim has been retrospectively re-applied.We'll see if he's still allowed to claim next year ;) My info's from the BHA website. However, I did read it some time ago. -
Re: The Trainers Thread David Lannigan , he was a young trainer who I thought was going to hit the big time when he first appeared on the scene back in 2008. He had the backing from big owners and has some well bred horses . Has trained an Oaks and Derby runner up. But thats it. To me , he's very disappointing. Those two classic runner ups didn't do anything afterwards . Main Sequence ran another 9 times for Lannigan after coming second in the Derby and didn't win , it wasn't until he changed trainer did he win again which were 2 Group 1s. He has so many premier league horses but when they reach group level they don't progress. I've never trained a horse or even sat on a thoroughbred but to me he's one of the most disappointing trainers.
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Re: The Jockey Thread
As far as I'm aware you can be considered an apprentice until you are 26' date=' I believe it's the same with conditionals. However, you can be an amateur jockey at any age and continue to claim an allowance if you have not rode the winners.[/quote'] Yes , you could be right , I did not search for confirmation prior to posting , I just thought I read they lifted the age limit sometime in the last decade , I may be wrong. In your popular Apprentice Watch thread , you posted a chart featuring apprentices which included the competent multiple Group race winning Slade O'Hara , he is currently claiming 3lbs. He started riding in 2002 which means he's been riding 12 years. I don't know for sure what the minimum age is for apprentice jockeys but I guess it is 16. If that is so then Slade would have to be at least 27 depending on which month his birthday falls on , so maybe the information you posted is from an old text book or an out of date piece of text. -
Re: The Jockey Thread
They have lifted the age limit for apprentices , you can be an apprentice or conditional until you ride out your claim. Up until sometime in the last decade , once you reached 25 years of age you became a jockey and lost you right to claim. I think Kim Tinkler ( wife of trainer N Tinkler ( Sugarfoot Group race winner)one of the most successful female jockeys prior to the emergence of Hayley Turner , did not ride out her claim but lost her right to claim , she was a moderately successful jockey until her retirement very recently. Now we have jockeys able to claim at all ages , theres a jockey currently riding who has a cult following who is in her late 40s.noel garbutt what age is he?? is he late to racing as an apprentice? -
Re: King George VI Antepost Its very very early to be taking a chance on the King George Chase. The season hasn't even started yet. Who knows what might emerge as viable challegers. 9/1 Could be a big price on the day , I'd prefer to back it at 7/1 - 5/1 on the day for a much bigger stake. Theres every chance it might not even turn up.
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Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread
Spend less time trying to mock me. I use this forum 2 or 3 times a week to air my opinions . Allow me the opportunity to say whats on my mind , without censorship or making a thread disappear , you can disagree with them all you want , don't mock me. If you are trying to make me feel not welcome , just say so and I won't bother visiting anymore. Your comments are juvenile , we are all adults on here. Lets draw a line under everything.That's so funny, its like someone who bets when they know a pricing error has occurred, let me see who did that not so long ago! I dont do either, what do you do? Power to the people, protect the punters!!! Don't make me laugh, i think your out for revenge on the bookies for some injustice that may have happened years ago. Come on tell us what happened to make you so bitter that you spend your life slagging them off at every opportunity. Embarrasing:$ -
Re: The Jockey Thread
Was going to say the same thing yesterday. S Heffernan on the winner was always travelling the best and Kingsbarns for the final furlong and a bit was just half a neck down Heffernan not making much effort to assert and Young Joseph rowing away like mad. It looked like Heffernan wanted Kingsbarns to get past and win but couldn't. This reminds me of a long debate we had on here a year or two back when St Nicholas Abbey was beaten by his 66/1 pacemaker. AP O'Brien is quoted afterwards saying they thought the horse would get tired and may need the run. The horse was odds on in the morning and drifted to 9/4 whereas the winner , not as big as 66/1 shortened to 13/2.joseph obriens ride on kingsbarns today what was that all about?? -
Re: Qatar Racing new lineup for 2015 I think the appointment of O Murphy is so that other big operations don't get their hands on him like Godolphin. He has the potential to become another W Buick within the next 5 years. Atzeni , given this great opportunity , it will make him a top class jockey.
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Re: Jamie Spencer to retire from race riding at the end of the season Maybe Sheikh Fahad should re evalulate the position of David Redvers. He has made a number of purchases of mediocre horses which makes the operation look less prestigious. If the horses are no good Spencer and Bentley will obviously struggle to win on them. Also when the Sheikh first started D Redvers was advising the owner to sell his best horse overseas like Frederick Engels to Hong Kong to fund the operation. How wrong was he ? What about the close to £3million for Hydrogen , whats the odds it will win back a third of that in prizemoney ? Sheikh Fahad if you are reading this ,private message me for a copy of my CV.
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Re: Jamie Spencer to retire from race riding at the end of the season Reading the Sporting Life , it sounds like Frankie Spencer was sacked / replaced rather than him wanting to retire. He is rather vague as to what he wants to do in the future leading me think this might have happened out of the blue. Sheikh Fahad happened to be in the country and the announcement of two new jockeys the next day seems to me they have been planning this for a while. Wouldn't Atzeni have needed more time to think about the situation , his current job and his retainer with Sheikh Obiad ? Spencer still young enough to reverse his decision or make a comeback in a year or two.
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Re: Jamie Spencer to retire from race riding at the end of the season
yes agree , just down to inexperience. He will be a much better jockey in a few years.Just lost on an 8/11 shot with an absolutely terrible ride. -
Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread
That is rubbish. For years and years whenever a horse has been declared by the trainer to be not going for a particular race or is out for the season , the horse is removed from the betting and the market is reformed. Bookies did not wait until the declaration stage before removing it. Don't be twisting the essence of what I am saying , the over 50s are more likely to be adverse to technology , nothing to do with being old and brainless. My posts on this forum right from the time I joined has been about the protection of punters. Many of you mock me and try to counter what I say , that shows what type of people some of you are. It is morally and ethically wrong to take advantage of people in less fortunate circumstances , whether its being poor , unable to read , unable to calculate their returns , no access to internet / information or whatever... Some of you have a " haha he deserves to be screwed over " attitude. That is just wrong. Are you the type to applaud a second hand car salesman for selling a death trap of a car to a neighbour you don't like ? When walking past a homeless person on the street , do you turn your nose up at them and think to yourself " scumbag " , or do you stop and hand over a little spare change?Its a futile argument, of course a horse will always be in the market unless its officially withdrawn at a declaration stage. You cant just be guessing which horse will run and which will not. In my opinion (i'm over 50 by the way, so i'm old and brainless) if anyone is brave enough to bet ante-post then at least do a little homework and try to find out if in fact its on the horses agenda. -
Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread The whole point of ante post betting is to back a horse at much bigger odds in the hope it turns up on the day at much shorter odds. In recent years I have noticed that ante post odds are no longer attractive , the long range odds are often too short. Take a look at the odds for the Arc which is always run on the first Sunday , the odds on the day will most likely be more generous than what you get now and there will be less horses on the day , Plus the Arc trails have yet to be run !!
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Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread
That is rubbish, it is blatantly taking advantage of punters who are not up to speed with technology. Punters in their 50s and older who have traditionally indulged in ante post betting more so than today's generation are more likely to be exploited.Some of them dont even own a mobile phone, never mind having a computer. What sort of person are you to say they deserve to lose? If a horse is declared to be a non runner, bookies should remove it from the betting despite still being declared.You miss my point. My point being if the horse is still in the decs you dont remove it. If somebody is stupid enough to bet it.....well they deserve to lose -
Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread
kicking king was reported to be out of the Gold Cup after his King George win, then romps home at CheltenhamCould you name two other occasions ??
The Jockey Thread
in At The Races - Racing Forum
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Re: The Jockey Thread Yes I do like Young Joseph , but I do think he's got too much responsibility on his shoulders. Had R Moore been on Australia and Young Joseph on The Great Gatsby do you think it would have been the same result ? Yes agree his ride on Leading Light was below satisfactory , he is not as tactically astute as other top jockeys yet.