Are online poker rooms fair?

[slapdash]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair?

Of course, but I also play live. And I don't remember a single time loosing when holding AA or KK. While online 4 out of 6 AA I lost. What kind of math & stats is that?!

It's not maths or stats. If it were maths or stats then we would have been given a precise description of the experiment so that we could work out how unlikely it was to have happened by chance. Like I did here a couple of years ago (posts #39 and #40). Things you haven't told us:

• Are these all the hands where you held AA?
• Did all the money go in preflop?
• Was there only one other hand seeing each flop?

For what it's worth, if you play AA six times against one other hand like 22, 55, 99 or JT, then your chance of losing at least four times out of six is about 1.4%. But I have no idea from your description whether that's even close to a fair description of the actual scenario.

[Nade]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? XCode what you're forgetting is some of your opponents will realise you're only playing the top 5% of hands and so will play accordingly against you. You've said playing the top 5% of hands is right and everyone else who plays more hands and wins is just favoured by the rigged sites. This is just, i mean, i can't even be bothered with this.

[xcode]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair?

You've said playing the top 5% of hands is right and everyone else who plays more hands and wins is just favoured by the rigged sites.

A guy who plays J3 against mine AJ and with J on the flop gets a 3 on the river. Same guy with Q6 against mine AQ and with Q on the flop gets a 6 on the turn. The poker tracker reported 88% of voluntary play for this guy and 0% preflop raise and 0% aggression. He was the biggest fish I ever met in my entire life. And if the pokerstars software has not supported him, he would have lost all his chips in the first 5 hands. This could never happen in a live casino.

[Nade]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? Trust me, exactly the same terrible beyond words inexplicably horrendous poker gets rewarded at live poker tables too. Then they look at you not playing every hand like them like you've landed in a UFO :eyes You'll look back on this thread one day when you have more poker experience and think 'what an idiot i was'.

[gettingfatter]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair?

Of course' date=' but I also play live. And I don't remember a single time loosing when holding AA or KK. [/quote'] Live must be rigged in your favour then right?

[xcode]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? WAKE UP...of course online poker is rigged! They are rigged to favor bad play. Here are some absolute facts you choose to ignore. 1) The so called "regulating sites" that are suppose to keep it fair? From my research I found they are owned and operated by the poker sites. It's like having banks or the stock market regulate itself. Just in case you have a short memory...remember how the economy got in this shape? Self regulation by financial institutions. 2) The "more hands" theory is BS. I tracked WITH PEN AND PAPER every online hand I saw played or played in for one month, just for my own peace of mind. The numbers were nothing less than astonishing. All in good won less than 20%, regardless of how far ahead it was. The river decided the winner in over 85% of the time, regardless of odds. Runner runner won over 30%, yet your best odds to hit a runner runner are about 4% for a flush. I deposited in Poker Stars and in my 1st 30 minutes, in a span of 5 hands, I saw quad aces twice and quad 10's once. I have played live for 25 years, sometimes 3 days straight at a table and I'm amazed to see quads once a week. I have never seen a run like that live. 3) The RNG is another chunk of nonsense. These supposed "Random number generators" do not duplicate live action. They generate more or less possibilities than a live deck of cards. If the RNG is not generating the EXACT SAME NUMBER of possibilities that are in a live deck, then it's NOT FAIR. From my research I have learned there is no way to program the exact amount of live deck possibilities. 4) The "Why would the poker sites rig the games" question shows a complete lack of any type of business knowledge. These sites are in the game to MAKE MONEY. It's not a freaking charity...there's a profit involved. The simple fact is 90% of the so-called "Players" are not really players. Most people do not possess the skill set to be consistently successful at poker. Look at it like this...You own a business and 90% of your customers are unhappy...how long would you stay in business? Poker sites only make real money if they keep 90% of bad players coming back. The only way that's going to happen is if they win. So do poker sites benefit more from keeping the game fair so better play wins out? or by making sure MORE players win regardless of their skill? Please address this question: Daily there are millions of players online as opposed to far less live players, yet in every live televised tournament I watch, the final table has at most 1 or 2 so called internet pros. With the number of internet "pros" being 100's of times greater than live players why are there so few able to win in the big live tourneys? I'll answer that for you...because there are far less miracles in live poker. All in on a draw doesn't win 90% live like it does online. 5) Online poker is no different than playing poker over the phone, just because you can see the cards doesn't make it real or more legit. Anytime I can't see the cards coming off the deck (and even sometimes when I can) I'll never be gullible enough to believe I'm not getting cheated. If you think online poker isn't rigged then join my daily "poker over the phone" game. It's a $1000.00 buy-in, everyone calls me up and I tell you what your hands are, then I tell you what the flop is, then I tell you the river and the turn and I promise it's fair. It's "regulated" by my wife and why would she lie to you? It's the same as playing online only you can't see the cards. I run my business from a P.O. box, I have an 800 # and it's regulated by my wife. What more assurances do you need?

[Nade]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? :ok

[bacardirum]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? Xcode, some of your points sound valid enough, but at the end of the day its all still a conspiracy theory. There was a hand I watched on TV the other night, anyways both players had pairs, then one made quads from the flop, and the other trips, and then he made quads from the river. They obviously both thought they had best hand, and were thinking they were luring each other into a trap, of course the guy with lower quads lost all his chips and was knocked out, had this exact scenario been to someone online, sure its all rigged. Regarding 90% unhappy players and no business. I presume 90% of people are losers, but mostly play for a bit of fun and the hope to win big, or be great, i.e watch it on TV upload $500 and away they go, they lost it, next month they get paid and away they go. When you have hundreds of thousands of players all doing that, well it cant be a bad thing for business. 99.9% of people lose at Casinos, what are the casino sites doing, why are people going back and spending money? Same thing.

[gettingfatter]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? I would love to know how many hands you played in that month that you were jotting your stats down. I have played ~15k in the last 4 days and if I was just looking at those results rather than the bigger picture I would say it is without a doubt rigged, sample size can really **** with your head.

[gettingfatter]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair?

WAKE UP...of course online poker is rigged! They are rigged to favor bad play. Here are some absolute facts you choose to ignore. 1) The so called "regulating sites" that are suppose to keep it fair? From my research I found they are owned and operated by the poker sites. It's like having banks or the stock market regulate itself. Just in case you have a short memory...remember how the economy got in this shape? Self regulation by financial institutions. 2) The "more hands" theory is BS. I tracked WITH PEN AND PAPER every online hand I saw played or played in for one month, just for my own peace of mind. The numbers were nothing less than astonishing. All in good won less than 20%, regardless of how far ahead it was. The river decided the winner in over 85% of the time, regardless of odds. Runner runner won over 30%, yet your best odds to hit a runner runner are about 4% for a flush. I deposited in Poker Stars and in my 1st 30 minutes, in a span of 5 hands, I saw quad aces twice and quad 10's once. I have played live for 25 years, sometimes 3 days straight at a table and I'm amazed to see quads once a week. I have never seen a run like that live. 3) The RNG is another chunk of nonsense. These supposed "Random number generators" do not duplicate live action. They generate more or less possibilities than a live deck of cards. If the RNG is not generating the EXACT SAME NUMBER of possibilities that are in a live deck, then it's NOT FAIR. From my research I have learned there is no way to program the exact amount of live deck possibilities. 4) The "Why would the poker sites rig the games" question shows a complete lack of any type of business knowledge. These sites are in the game to MAKE MONEY. It's not a freaking charity...there's a profit involved. The simple fact is 90% of the so-called "Players" are not really players. Most people do not possess the skill set to be consistently successful at poker. Look at it like this...You own a business and 90% of your customers are unhappy...how long would you stay in business? Poker sites only make real money if they keep 90% of bad players coming back. The only way that's going to happen is if they win. So do poker sites benefit more from keeping the game fair so better play wins out? or by making sure MORE players win regardless of their skill? Please address this question: Daily there are millions of players online as opposed to far less live players, yet in every live televised tournament I watch, the final table has at most 1 or 2 so called internet pros. With the number of internet "pros" being 100's of times greater than live players why are there so few able to win in the big live tourneys? I'll answer that for you...because there are far less miracles in live poker. All in on a draw doesn't win 90% live like it does online. 5) Online poker is no different than playing poker over the phone, just because you can see the cards doesn't make it real or more legit. Anytime I can't see the cards coming off the deck (and even sometimes when I can) I'll never be gullible enough to believe I'm not getting cheated. If you think online poker isn't rigged then join my daily "poker over the phone" game. It's a $1000.00 buy-in, everyone calls me up and I tell you what your hands are, then I tell you what the flop is, then I tell you the river and the turn and I promise it's fair. It's "regulated" by my wife and why would she lie to you? It's the same as playing online only you can't see the cards. I run my business from a P.O. box, I have an 800 # and it's regulated by my wife. What more assurances do you need?

1) psh tinfoil hat etc 2) see above 3) the RNG is probably way more random than your average casino dealers shuffle 4) I dont buy this, people lose their houses playing roulette, betting on horses/dogs etc, degens dont look for +EV opportunities they look for opportunities where they might win a lot of money and because of the variance involved in poker, that can happen occasionally (the sites know this so why would they risk the free money they get at the moment from huge rake). I see fish with 10BI stacks wayy more often than regs, its because they just gamble it up and occasionally ride the wave. 5) You have clearly never seen a card mechanic at work because with people like that around, live self dealt games are a shit load more dangerous than the net. I think you have to get to a point where you realise you just arent very good at poker. I recently moved sites from a fishy site to a site with rakeback and got crushed, my theory was that the rakeback easily makes up for it and I am bound to be a decent winner in the games anyway, but I just wasnt - Moved back within 2 weeks with my tail between my legs.

[babyroxanne]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? Some online betting sites show live streaming of their games so players will see the actual game, like for real.

[Esox]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair?

I know this question has been posted over and over again on all sort of sites, but let me share my experience. For the last six month, I sign up and played at several poker rooms: pokerstars, fulltiltpoker, everestpoker, betfair poker, betdag poker, bet365 poker. And every time the same story happens over and over again. I sign up with a small amount like 25$ and play .25/.50 limit. Shortly after the sign up I get all sorts of lucky hands and lucky rivers. I've turned those 25$ into over 100$ each time I sign up in just a couple of days. And after a week or so of winning I start loosing. All sort of unbelievable rivers come to my opponents and I cannot win even with AA or KK. Then I think: ok my game turned bad. BUT if I go to a new poker room and sign up, I am winning all over again. For a week or so and then the same thing happens as before I start loosing in that poker room. I really doubt poker rooms are fair anymore. Anyone has the same experience?

I can honestly say this has not happened to me, played on 6 or 7 sites over last couple of years, if anything i usually start off losing then as i get used to the play of some of the regular players i improve and turn a profit (single table SnG)

[muttley]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? Great thread! Here are some of the things that I have learned here.. i) AA is a clear underdog to a lower pair preflop. ii) KK, however, is a lock hand. iii) AK should be folded if an A or a K appears on the flop. iv) Straight draws and flush draws get there 90% of the time. v) If there are 3 of a suit on the board then 90-95% of the time everyone will be dealt 2 of that suit the next hand. I'm off to play some poker (on a new site, naturally). I'll come back to tell you how much I won.

[glceud]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair?

v) If there are 3 of a suit on the board then 90-95% of the time everyone will be dealt 2 of that suit the next hand.

To to add to that the hand following a paired board all four of that card will be dealt, this of course is a massive advantage if you don't hold one of the aforementioned cards as four players at the table will only have one live card. If there was also three to a flush the previous hand mentioned and you hold suited cards of any other suit you are so far ahead you can 5 bet with no fear. (I take it this is boss media we're talking about;))

[staffy]

Re: Are online poker rooms fair? I cant believe O have just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading this thread. Thanks very much. Right i'm off to play roulette I have a system which works.