Big pot early, what do you do?

[deadlydaveLDN]

Early stages of a $7 rebuy on iPoker, 103 players left from 126 entrants. I'm chipleader, and 2nd chipleader is to my right, both around 8k stacks, blinds 20/40. 1 limper, 2nd chipleader shoves all-in, I have AKo, what do you do?

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? I should add, I've been at the table with him for 3 hands, and the only hand I saw was him shoving pre-flop (when he had a smaller stack) with JJ.

[heniek31]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? It depends on individual approach to re buys. It's an easy fold for me.

[Hooloovoo]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

It depends on individual approach to re buys. It's an easy fold for me.

Agree. Had it been a freezeout: very easy fold.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? Also, to anyone who answers, would your answer change if it was a freezeout?

[slapdash]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? What's the starting stack? How long until the end of the rebuy period? Is there a discount on the add-on? I'm not sure the answers will affect my answer much, but I'd want to know this information before making a decision.

[slapdash]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? Also, how many players still to act after you, and (roughly) what are their stack sizes?

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? Early stages as I said, guess 2/3 of the rebuy period to go. He shoves from MP. Starting stack 1.5k, although as it's rebuy I always rebuy for 3k stack. Add-on is 2k chips instead of 1.5k. I can't remember the stack sizes of those after me.

[happyhornet]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? You are likely to be racing, at best. Unless your approach to rebuys is somewhat cavalier, I see no plus point in calling.

[slapdash]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? I think I fold ... just. I'd call if my stack were a bit smaller compared to the starting stack. If he's going to make a habit of shoving, I think information about what kinds of hand he's shoving with is very valuable. If there were some short stacks still to act who might call if I fold, that would make me more likely to fold, as I might get the information anyway. In a freezeout, I'd fold.

[ELCAKER]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? I love spots like this!! For what it's worth I'm calling here, (only because it is a re-buy). Very unlikely you are up against KK or AA and therefore at worst you are racing. My reason for calling....if you win the pot you are monster monster chip leader and someone of your ability should be able to make that count. Moreover it is a relatively cheap tourney and therefore the standard of play can at times be very questionable, for this reason we'll often turn up against AQ, AJ, A10 - hands we monster. If you do lose the hand, well you re-buy and start again...the upside for me far outweighs the downside...AK is a big big hand...and well worth playing against an "idiot" who is shoving in the early stages of mtt. Teach him a PL lesson....:spank:spank:spank

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

You are likely to be racing' date=' at best. Unless your approach to rebuys is somewhat cavalier, I see no plus point in calling.[/quote'] I think this is the key. Am I really racing at best? I would argue that I am racing at worst. I don't think I've ever seen anyone make this play with AA or KK, very rarely QQ (although that's possible given that we've just seen him shove JJ, albeit with a smaller stack). But it's very possible that he's doing this with something like AQ or AJ. If I was told I was racing, I call, I'm quite happy to try to double up to a huge stack here on a flip. I'd probably make the same play in a freezout. But here, I really think I'm racing at worst, not racing at best. As it turned out, I called, he had 77, and won the pot.

[slapdash]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

I think this is the key. Am I really racing at best? I would argue that I am racing at worst.

I agree that, on the limited info available, you're probably a slight favourite against his range, as he could be shoving AQ, AJ, etc. With a smaller stack, that would make me call; the reason I would (just) fold here is that what I gain in tournament EV by doubling a big stack is less than what I lose by losing the big stack.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone make this play with AA or KK, very rarely QQ (although that's possible given that we've just seen him shove JJ, albeit with a smaller stack).

I have occasionally seen people shoving AA or KK early in rebuys: usually when they have recently shoved lots of other hands, or if there have been players at the table who seem willing to call all-ins. I've even done it myself once or twice when there were a few maniacs who'd previously called all-ins with hands like KQ.

If I was told I was racing, I call, I'm quite happy to try to double up to a huge stack here on a flip.

I'm not convinced. Is double your stack really worth twice what your present stack is worth? Especially early in the rebuy period, when you don't have quite the same "bullying equity" when people can rebuy.

[slapdash]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? By the way, I used to automatically rebuy at the beginning in rebuys. Recently I've been experimenting with not rebuying, mainly because it makes calling all-ins from bigger stacks better value in terms of tournament EV. I will rebuy later (before I go bust) if I drop to a very small stack or to a stack that is awkward to play (say 13-14 big blinds), or sometimes just before the end of the rebuy period if I think I have a significant skill advantage. I haven't yet decided whether it's a good idea.

[AJ]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

Early stages of a $7 rebuy on iPoker, 103 players left from 126 entrants. I'm chipleader, and 2nd chipleader is to my right, both around 8k stacks, blinds 20/40. 1 limper, 2nd chipleader shoves all-in, I have AKo, what do you do?

Fold, at best your racing. You can play poker later

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

Fold' date=' at best your racing.[/quote'] As asked earlier, is that really true? Am I not racing at worst?

[billy the punter]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

As asked earlier' date=' is that really true? Am I not racing at worst?[/quote'] Yes. At worst your racing. However it's extremely likely you are racing. AQ or AJ is a possibilty but only a slight one. That said, AQ or AJ is more likely than AA or KK so the call is understandable. Due to building a fairly nice stack I'm still leaning towards fold (despite the above). Yeah probably fold most of the time here. Shorter stack obvious call. F/O obvious fold.

[BAM]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? First 1/3 of rebuy period (as this is?) I'd call unless its a slow structure which I'm guessing it isn't. In the latter parts of the rebuy period I'd probably fold (if I was one of the chipleaders) In the middle part of the rebuy period I'd probably go and put the coffee pot on and ask my son to play the hand. In a freezeout obv fold.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? What interests me is that everyone is saying it's an obvious fold if it was a freezout. I'm not saying a fold is a bad play, but I think a call is fine here also. If we give him a range of 77-QQ and AJ+ (which I think is about right given the discussion on here, and pretty much what I had him on at the time), then AKo is 51.95% Of course the argument is that you can wait for a better spot, but personally I'm always going to take a (better than) 50-50, unless in the latter stages where I can move up the pay ladder by folding.

[slapdash]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

Of course the argument is that you can wait for a better spot,

It's not my argument.

but personally I'm always going to take a (better than) 50-50, unless in the latter stages where I can move up the pay ladder by folding.

I agree if you mean 50-50 in terms of tournament equity. I just don't believe that doubling your stack here will double your tournament equity.

[Woodie]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? I snap this so quick. It's a rebuy all about gambling early stages for a big stack.

[AJ]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do?

As asked earlier' date=' is that really true? Am I not racing at worst?[/quote'] Sorry, didn't realise it was a rebuy. Makes a call more likely

[averick]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? I call, its a rebuy and as you said most of the time you're racing at worst.

[jbrind]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? what's a freezeout?

[paul2475]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? Rebuy or no rebuy personally i FOLD....think about it u don't need to be throwing away a chiplead here at 20 to 40 blinds even if u feel u ahead anything can happen badbeat etc,plenty of time later on to make this call when it matters.Just no need to be getting involved with another chipleader here.Fold and keep your stack lead for awhile.:) Definately call if u involved with lower stacks maybe risk 3k at the most.

[okeedokalee]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? If he had a hand then the raise would be smaller, I think he is protecting 88-QQ therefore if you are happy racing and re-buying call, in a freezeout I'm content folding here.:beer

[trips]

Re: Big pot early, what do you do? Don't think theres anything wrong with calling,the big point for me is the blinds are small so unless i have a read on player its a fold,IMO most of the time you are racing against hands like 66-99,if the blinds were bigger i would include hands like A 10 -AQ, and its a call.