One of Toughest Spots

[billy the punter]

In my opinion this (or somthing similar) is one of the trickiest spots in NLHE MTT play. A hand from one of my Cake tournaments tonight. Numbers from memory (won't be far off). 51 left of 131 runners. 25 paid. Averate stack around 12,000. I have 10,000. Blinds were either 150/300 or 200/400. UTG+1 makes is 1,100 to go. I was UTG+2 with JJ What would you do?

[jedinight7]

Re: One of Toughest Spots if you flat him, gives position rest of the hand, if you reraise you might need to get commited to any flop, your too deep to shove, id probably flat, hope for a good flop, if the flops terrible, you can still easily get away from it..

[billy the punter]

Re: One of Toughest Spots

if you flat him, gives position rest of the hand, if you reraise you might need to get commited to any flop, your too deep to shove, id probably flat, hope for a good flop, if the flops terrible, you can still easily get away from it..

We'll call my original post scenario A. What about scenario B - exactly the same, but this time you are in the BB. Or scenario C - you DO flat call, it's folded around to one of the blinds who shoves for 20k - original raiser folds. :ok

[jedinight7]

Re: One of Toughest Spots need more information lol, what ranges are you putting the villain on? what have they showed down already? if they are new to the table then id probably play with care :)

[Dr Who]

Re: One of Toughest Spots

We'll call my original post scenario A. What about scenario B - exactly the same, but this time you are in the BB. Or scenario C - you DO flat call, it's folded around to one of the blinds who shoves for 20k - original raiser folds. :ok

Depends on the tiered nature of the payout and what your aim is, do you want to sneak a cash or win it ? Scenario A, you don't have the chips to play fancy poker. Push or fold. Scenario B, same. Push or fold. Scenario C, depends on your read on the guy that pushed, most likely fold.

[Woodie]

Re: One of Toughest Spots This is horrible. I don't think there is a wrong opinion with this sort of hand but if you flat which I would prob never do your just setting it up for someone to raise the both of you can your left with an even sicker spot? maybe? I'd prob just shove and hope your not walking into a higher pair from utg just hope he has ak but depends what his image is, if he's a rock then jj is a fold there? The stacks arn't really deeper enough to call/fold for me. If scenario B I think it's a lot easier, this may come across really weak but jj I don't like prob just call and obviously play it like a noob and fold if any over cards. call his cbet on low boards, check/call... Don't know tricky without knowing the raisers image.

[billy the punter]

Re: One of Toughest Spots

need more information lol' date= what ranges are you putting the villain on? what have they showed down already? if they are new to the table then id probably play with care :)

There isn't more info I'm afraid - if there was it wouldn't be a tough spot. ;) I've just moved to the table - first hand. Besides given our position (in scenario A) is it only the villian we need to worry about? It's not really the fact that there is a raise and I have jacks, we all know how to play that - it's the position that makes this tough. :ok

[billy the punter]

Re: One of Toughest Spots

Depends on the tiered nature of the payout and what your aim is' date= do you want to sneak a cash or win it ? Scenario A, you don't have the chips to play fancy poker. Push or fold. Scenario B, same. Push or fold. Scenario C, depends on your read on the guy that pushed, most likely fold.

I don't see how that is relevant here, we're too far off the money to think of that and besides by stack means I cannot limp my way there anyway. I think I agree with you after that though. :ok

[billy the punter]

Re: One of Toughest Spots

This is horrible. I don't think there is a wrong opinion with this sort of hand but if you flat which I would prob never do your just setting it up for someone to raise the both of you can your left with an even sicker spot? maybe? I'd prob just shove and hope your not walking into a higher pair from utg just hope he has ak but depends what his image is, if he's a rock then jj is a fold there? The stacks arn't really deeper enough to call/fold for me. If scenario B I think it's a lot easier, this may come across really weak but jj I don't like prob just call and obviously play it like a noob and fold if any over cards. call his cbet on low boards, check/call... Don't know tricky without knowing the raisers image.

These days I'm pretty happy to reraise with jacks regardless of where the original raise comes from. Players are a lot looser/steal-happy UTG and UTG+1 now, as you know. In "B" I shove most of the time - unless it's big stack vs big stack etc What makes "A" tough is my postion, plus the stack sizes. If I'm sitting on 20k I would make this 4500/5000 to play. Given my stack etc, if those in behind had passed out of turn then I would shove 100%, like I say, JJ plays very well against an open-raiser at this stage of an MTT (again we all know this). If he does have me beat, so be it. Anyway, I shoved, I wasn't comfortable with many players to act behind. A buy in the BB cold-called (I know I'm dead). Original raiser passes. The BB woke up with kings. This is exactly what I was worried about, moving in just puts me on offer and I'm only getting called if I'm beaten. Still interested in thoughts - even though I've posted the answer. :ok

[Dodger]

Re: One of Toughest Spots JJ and QQ are a pain in the neck. With no prior information it is difficult to put tight ranges on your opponents. Overcards on the flop put you to the sword and I would usually prefer to shove all-in here. There is a lot to be said about removing all problematic post flop decisions and you may even get the original raiser to fold which would be good enough. ...added... A lot here depends on how much you value your seat...if you're not too ''into'' the game then shove it in and if you lose then move on to another game. If you've been waiting all week for this game and want/need to go deep then maybe this would prompt you to fold. I often find my play is dictated by what tournament I'm playing in. I was castigated in a game the other day because I posted up ''It's only a freeroll!!!'', to which I was told I should be playing every hand of poker ''correctly''. I can't do that...if a tournament means little to me (maybe only playing because it's a focus game or a magazine game that gets 2000 players) I find it oh so easy to play the donkey moves that I would be avoiding if I'd paid €20 to enter.

[seanfaz]

Re: One of Toughest Spots Wow, its interesting that no-one has considered folding as an option! Maybe im just an absolute rock, but couldn't you fold here? You can't re-raise without shoving as has been agreed, and a flat call is possibly for too much of your stack, but could be an option - beter than shoving i think. The shove is so unnecessary. It is essentially a bluff, and a bad one at that, because there are so many players left to act behind. You may get called by 10s i suppose, but really, the only calling hand you beat is AK, and even then, you are racing for your stack! This is a tough spot, but with over 20bb's, do you really have to get involved here? Can't you wait for a better spot? You're by no means desperate. Just because you have jacks doesn't mean you have to play. I am interested to see what you think, maybe i'm way too tight! But it is a tournament after all, survival is key!