billy the punter Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 £500 PLO Double Chance. Level 4 so now a freezeout. 58 runners, 6 paid. 2 x 3,500 was the starting stacks, had 15,000 at the break (end of 3rd level). No one I was really worried about at the table, Gary Jones was two to my left but he was short throughout. Rarely a lot of stealing in PLO tournaments but it was even harder on this table. We were coming to the end of level 4 (over three hours since the start) and we had seen a flop every hand but two! One was a walk and the other was a re-pot from me after limping UTG. The only stealing chance I could see was re-potting a tight player, other than that I would have to hit/see flops. So was playing as many small pots as I could in position. Like I say, we're coming to the end of level 4 and there are now just 23 left. Average stack is 17,000, I now have 13,200. I limp for 200 UTG with Kc Jc Jd 9d. UTG+1 is ridiculously LAG preflop, borders on maniac. I've played him before. He has passed in an unraised pot just twice in over 3 hours. I am not exaggerating here, he has played 80%+ of hands. I've played thousands of players in many different venues and he would be in the top 5 loosest players preflop in an tournament. He makes 900 to play, one caller, I call for 700 more. Flop Kd 6d Tc I check, raiser pots for 3,000. Other bloke folds. On to me for 3,000. I have 12,300 left. Given the info/situation, what is your play here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? Given your info, I would raise the pot. It seems like a c-bet from him and you have a good hand but more importantly have good re-draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? Please don't think I'm just disagreeing with anything you do just for the sake of it :lol, but given the LAGness of UTG+1, wouldn't a limp re-raise pre-flop be the best line to take, especially after he gets another caller? As played, I think I just call here, and try to get more action on the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? Please don't think I'm just disagreeing with anything you do just for the sake of it :lol, but given the LAGness of UTG+1, wouldn't a limp re-raise pre-flop be the best line to take, especially after he gets another caller? As played, I think I just call here, and try to get more action on the turn. Dave, he is big time LAG preflop like I say, you really want to re-pot pre? He won't fold. You want to commit 4k with this hand preflop? 4k at least, he may come back over. I personally think limp re-pot is horrible. On the flop, a call is 25% of your chips remember. You say to get more action? What you mean by that, are you trapping? --- Will wait for a response or two more before I relay what I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? Dave, he is big time LAG preflop like I say, you really want to re-pot pre? He won't fold. You want to commit 4k with this hand preflop? 4k at least, he may come back over. I personally think limp re-pot is horrible. On the flop, a call is 25% of your chips remember. You say to get more action? What you mean by that, are you trapping? --- Will wait for a response or two more before I relay what I did. I actually misread your hand as KKJ9, not KJJ9, so you might aswell ignore my post :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? I actually misread your hand as KKJ9' date=' not KJJ9, so you might aswell ignore my post :ok[/quote'] Gotcha, I did think it was odd. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? There aren't many PLO'ers on here so I don't think we'll get many responses. I decided to re-pot to 12k. I thought he could have air and even if he had AA he has to pass. He is LAG preflop but that is because he is a gambler, not a total fish. He is more than capable of folding post-flop. I make it 12k, he sets me in for my last few chips. I don't like it one bit obviously but I think at least I have outs - to the flush if he has trips or to two pair if he has AA and nut flushing. Flop Kd 6d Tc My hand Kc Jc Jd 9d His Ad Qd Kh 9h I'm all but drawing dead. It's unusual to be drawing so thin in PLO, so initially I was very angry with myself. I had an ok at an ok table. However hindsight is a wonderful thing. So was it a c*ck up, could I have gotten away from this hand? Against this opponent I think not. Was I just unlucky to run into the only type of hand I can get a call with in a raised pot? A monster drawing hand. Any other type of raising hand and he passes. Having mulled it over, I think I have to play the hand this way - it's just really unlucky he has a hand this time. Still feel free to comment and give your opinions - just try and ignore the result. So 23rd and out. Bah. Hornet, what you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? i'd have folded that on the flop billy. as you say above your pretty much drawing dead to anything 2 pair or better.your only real chance is that he's drawing for a str8 or flush ,even if you are ahead you might get outdrawn by 2 pair or a set or even an ace.your only real card that will give you the nuts is a queen not diamonds ,so 3 outs. okay he shouldnt really call with a weak hand and you might have gotten away with the raise, if he's betting out pot on this sort of flop with 2 players in the pot with him chances are he's caught a good part of it at least and usually loose player +half decent hand = moneys going in:\ as it is you've only put in 900 and have plenty of stack left to be getting on with so there's no real need for a "move" i'd much rather wait and let him give me money when i'm ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? i'd have folded that on the flop billy. as you say above your pretty much drawing dead to anything 2 pair or better.your only real chance is that he's drawing for a str8 or flush ,even if you are ahead you might get outdrawn by 2 pair or a set or even an ace your only real card that will give you the nuts is a queen not diamonds ,so 3 outs. okay he shouldnt really call with a weak hand and you might have gotten away with the raise, if he's betting out pot on this sort of flop chances are he's caught a good part of it at least and usually loose player +half decent hand = moneys going in:\ Against another player I pass. I had a flush draw too by the way. But I cannot pass this hand vs this opponent. Of course I can only explain his style in this thread. I don't think I'm dead a lot of the time, I think I'm live to many hands, even many of the hands he can call with. His actual hand is one of only a few 4-card combos I'm in trouble against. I think reraising when you're drawing to two pair, trips, a straight and a flush must be +EV in tournaments? Especially given the size of my stack in relation to the average stack and the size of the pot. His range is huge. If he is "at it" (likely) he has to pass. If he has a genuine hand there are only a few genuine hands he can call with; trips, AA with up and down, AA with nut flush draw, flush and straight draw hand. I'm still gonna have outs 95% of the time with those cards. I went on previous info, our experiences are something that helps us throughout our poker careers, however this time my "notes" got me in trouble - that doesn't mean my notes are wrong of course. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: PLO Tournament - WWYD? ah didnt see the flush as well (shouldnt post this late,little bleary eyed:beer;))but i still think i'd fold. yes i would reraise with a big drawing hand but i wouldnt consider your hand quite good enough on that flop ,knowing that my tourney life is at risk. i just dont like it because you have a half and half hand on that flop and a lot of cards that will improve you could well improve him as well if he is strong enough to call.i would rather have a strong made had like top2+ or a stronger drawing hand like ajq/9jq+diamonds. both the 9 and j could fill out staights and be no good,you might make your flush and its no good. i just think that if he calls the best its gonna be for you is a 30-40% chance of winning and although he may be laggy i would have to respect a decent size bet for strength enough to call and put me at risk. usually this sort of player will throw enough chips about to take advantage of so i think i'd wait for a better spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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