Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD?

[billy the punter]

Another WWYD thread from me, sorry. A real-life one this time. This is (very) slightly similar to the poser recently posted by deadlydave in the cash section which created plenty of debate. There were still two tables at this stage. ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 559480524 ***** NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee, Level:3 Blinds(25/50-(no ante)) - Friday, August 07, 23:09:22 GMT 2009 5 Seats GTD Next Day Sat to $18k GTD #267296 Table 1 9-max (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Total number of active players : 6 Seat 1: teamster99 ( 1,927.50 ) Seat 2: kinnier ( 1,100 ) Seat 5: GOLFGOD ( 3,980 ) Seat 6: Mrs Splash ( 2,810 ) Seat 7: Harold Boom ( 2,045 ) Seat 9: Sportsman ( 4,037.50 ) Tourney Level:3 Blinds(25/50-(no ante)) Mrs Splash posts small blind [25] Harold Boom posts big blind [50] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Harold Boom [ Jd, Td ] Sportsman folds teamster99 folds kinnier calls [50] GOLFGOD calls [50] Mrs Splash folds Harold Boom checks ** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, Ah, 2c ] Harold Boom checks kinnier checks GOLFGOD checks ** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ] Harold Boom checks kinnier checks GOLFGOD checks ** Dealing River ** [ Kc ] Harold Boom bets [131.25] kinnier raises to [262.50] GOLFGOD raises to [960] :\ WWYD?

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? I'd fold, but think I was folding the best hand, and hope kinnier called and lost. Even if kinnier calls and win the hand, the blinds are only 25/50 and I have over 1850 chips left. I don't mind the check on the turn although I would have made a 90 bet there. I can see why you checked - preflop and flop betting aren't indicative of either of them holding a 2-pair hand which could improve past you, but I wouldn't want a stray J or T to hit their inside draw for free to split the pot. I think kinnier could have an ace-rag type hand here that he wanted to slow play to get chips in on a later street as he is in need of them, whilst GOLFGOD looks like he has a King, which he didn't want to bet with on the A-hi flop, but I can't see him having a full house - K2 would have bet the turn imo as would 22 when the high straight draw came, AK would have raised pre-flop, the only hand I would be worried about being behind is KQ but again surely would have bet the turn to protect it. I think you're ahead but I would fold :unsure

[The Quiet Man]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? Well, I'm calling although I hate to see the board paired....makes me paranoid that there's a full house somewhere.....no betting until after the River doesn't give you too many clues though!:sad Who had the 22?:wall TQM

[RuleBritannia]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? I can understand your checking the flop and the turn, hoping to induce some sort of bet. The fact that none of them bet though at any point makes me believe they were not sitting with much. Think I would personally rule out (from what could possibly hurt you), AA, AK, KK, QQ, KQ, K2 I would be thinking along the lines of KJ, QJ, JJ possibly AJ for their hands. I find Kinnier's min raise fascinating, as it is as if he wants you to call him, but he is too scared to risk his stack by shoving, which he probably should be doing here if he really has a hand. I think tbh, I would be calling. I think you have the best hand here, but as TQM suggests, one of them is probably sitting with 22. :lol

[AJ]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? I push, I think they each have a king.

[JulioArca]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? I hate it when everyone slow plays ! Looking at the overall picture I think it's a fold as Kinnier may be slow playing a set in the hope of doubling up. GOLFGOD may be beating you too in which case you're out if you push and crippled if you call. Don't you just love it when this happens!

[ELCAKER]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? Billy, As this is a sat then folding is the only option. You are just trying to finish top 5 and therefore there'll be many better spots. You have only put 131 chips into the pot.... Do I think you are winning yes? Neither of your opponents will put you on the JT so their betting is relevant to the strength of their hands at the river. Furthermore, it is only a $20 tourney so you cant rule out Kinnier making a really really bad judgment play with something ridiculous like 88 or 99. Especially if he thinks you are just having a pop at the pot and will fold to any re-raise. Unlikely but possible. I doubt you were facing the house, more likely trip k's and if I was in a bullish mood I would snap call and hope to earn my spot right there and then....the proper play in my opinion though is the fold.

[billy the punter]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? Harold Boom goes all-in Harold Boom raises to [1,995] kinnier calls [787.50] kinnier goes all-in GOLFGOD folds Returning uncalled bet [945] to Harold Boom ** Showdown ** kinnier shows [ Kh, Jc ] three of a kind, Kings Harold Boom shows [ Jd, Td ] a straight, Ace to Ten ** Hand Conclusion ** Harold Boom wins 3,235 from main pot with a straight, Ace to Ten ************ Game 559480524 ends ************ Thanks guys. I agree with plenty of what has been said. I agree with a part (at least) of every answer. Want to add, there were not 6 left, just 6 on this table. There were still two tables in play so we were well away from qualification at this point. I hadn't much info on Kinnier, but have GOLFGOD down as inexperienced/loose. He had been in every pot almost. I couldn't read them for houses as surely 22 or KQ would have been bet by now. Trip 2's cannot slow play that much on that board and GOLFGOD would raise preflop with KQ - I understand when I asked the question I did not pass on the reads on him. I felt there was a major chance they were over playing their hands. It is a fair amount to call so if I make it I need to be certain they ARE overplaying their cards - well if they are I may as well shove, they will probably call with beaten hands I thought. Even if I behind Kinnier (who I was most concerned about despite the betting), I get possible side action from GOLFGOD due to our bigger stacks - although in the end he folded! My decision here was based on action taken place and my opinion of the player(s) in the hand. This is all important when making this marginal calls as we know. That is why I feel there is too much theory/strategy spoken in these "wwyd" threads. There should be more thought to how an opponent is thinking/acting, and why.

[ELCAKER]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? Did you go on and take a seat?!! I have one for you, a friend played in one of the FTOPS tonight - I qualify in the satellites he plays in the events, he's a better player than me so is therefore more likely to make a bigger score! Relatively early on, he gets KK, folded around so he makes a small bet....sb folds, BB Calls - board comes AAA, there's minimum betting, turn comes a 2, small bet and call, river comes a 9, all the money goes in....villain has AQ. He thinks he could he have got away from it - I told him not to worry - this hand will happen once a freakin' year, just unfortunate that it is in an FTOPS and not a $10 sng!

[billy the punter]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD?

Did you go on and take a seat?!! I have one for you, a friend played in one of the FTOPS tonight - I qualify in the satellites he plays in the events, he's a better player than me so is therefore more likely to make a bigger score! Relatively early on, he gets KK, folded around so he makes a small bet....sb folds, BB Calls - board comes AAA, there's minimum betting, turn comes a 2, small bet and call, river comes a 9, all the money goes in....villain has AQ. He thinks he could he have got away from it - I told him not to worry - this hand will happen once a freakin' year, just unfortunate that it is in an FTOPS and not a $10 sng!

Yeah I got a seat but did no good in the actual tourn. Your example is a tricky one. He had position so shouldn't have really gone skint, as he suggests. I'd be check/calling this. I definitely would not be betting the flop/turn if checked. If you fire three bullets you're only getting action from quads. If you check and maybe bet the river if checked to you, not only do you save money if they have AAAA, you allow others to catch up. :ok

[ELCAKER]

Re: Bet, Raise, Rereaise - WWYD? I think one of the problems was the tourney was a knockout, $200 in prize pool and $40 as a bounty. I told my mate he should be aggressive as an early double up means a big stack which can be very valuable... Which lends itself to the question, should different tournies bring about different styles of play? Should we gamble more in such a case as this a knockout in itself leads to financial reward? Or play with the normal caution? Difficult one for me, although obviously in this instance not getting eliminated was the more prudent play!!