ubermonkey1 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? RIVRD isn't calling a 60/40 shot though AJ he's putting the pressure on his opponent to call for their stack' date=' big difference.[/quote'] all the difference in the world:ok maybe if i was drawing to a lower straight flush i might consider being less aggressive :unsurebut with the 2nd nut heart draw and an already very good made hand to boot i would be raising as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivrd Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? RIVRD isn't calling a 60/40 shot though AJ he's putting the pressure on his opponent to call for their stack' date=' big difference.[/quote'] If an opponet has a flopped flush he becomes 71% / 29% favourite, but money is still going in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? I think it is very situational and there are a lot of result orientated thoughts in this thread. I think AJ has hit the nail on the head on the differences between Cash and MTT's and the value of your tourney life. In a cash game the felt would burn, fist pump, chair spin - in a MTT it depends on a lot of things but I wouldn't be shoving with the the ease some of you seem to have :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? I think it is very situational and there are a lot of result orientated thoughts in this thread. I think AJ has hit the nail on the head on the differences between Cash and MTT's and the value of your tourney life. In a cash game the felt would burn, fist pump, chair spin - in a MTT it depends on a lot of things but I wouldn't be shoving with the the ease some of you seem to have :unsure on a pure draw maybe not:unsure but with the made straight dont you think it's a money goes in whatever hand?at least in a non deepstack situation. i'd struggle to get away from that without the draw:unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? on a pure draw maybe not:unsure but with the made straight dont you think it's a money goes in whatever hand?at least in a non deepstack situation. i'd struggle to get away from that without the draw:unsure But it is a deepstack, I cannot see Jason's stack but it looks to be over £3k the blinds are at 60 so I'm assuming it is still early on, so how many reckless hands could this guy have played up until now? I'd like to know average stack, blind levels, structure, how many runners, prize pool etc etc before making a solid judgement. The pot size bet is fair enough but when he raises to 720, bells might start ringing that he maybe does have the made flush making you a 70/30 dog and no matter what in an MTT you should try and get your money in ahead but this rule is even more relavant in the early stages of a deepstack as there will be plenty more better opportunities to get your money in. If Jason has 3k then calling another 600/20% of his stack to see another card is not too bad but a bit fishy so it is probably shove or fold. When weak players overbet the pot in this way they are usually protecting a lead top pair shit kicker etc or in this case he doesn't want to see another heart and wants to win the pot right here. After more thinking (which I know you do not get time for online) I would fold and if that makes me a 'donkey' 'should give up poker' etc etc then so be it :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? A few days later and I still don't know what I'd have done. Poker plays can be affected by many things that can't really be quantified by posting up a hand history...maybe there is no right or wrong move here. In fact maybe there is never a right or wrong move, with so many things that can affect your decision making: Recollections from previous play against this opponent, your view about how he is playing tonight, your own attitude towards playing tonight, are you on a promise if you can get this over with quickly, how you think he views how you play, has the bastard got a flush, I think I need a crap, how you think he thinks how you think he is playing tonight, is your chicken curry about to be delivered, what is the meaning of life, can I shove him off a non-nut flush, god I wish the wife would stop talking to me about Big Brother, I'm sure there's a thread on the forum like this, if I call is he shoving next regardless?, are my ears getting longer?, is his nose a bit bigger?, wtf am I doing here anyways?, damn it it's bloody beeping at me now ...Fck it ...all-in. ..royal bloody flush ...muhahahaha! Seriously though it's one of those % things, maybe I'd be 50% shove, 20% call and 30% fold...which boils down to ''I just don't know''. :eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? can't remember how to do it but, what does an ICM calculation say about this situation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Unless it's final table, you cannot really use ICM.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueFinder Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? AJ, are you a losing or a break even player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? AJ' date=' are you a losing or a break even player?[/quote'] Depends on the game, I'm a much better tourney player than I am cash. The situational nature and variable worth of cards based on tourney stage seem to suit me more than pure cash. I think this hand is one where you need to think in a situational manner and what is right in a cash game isn't right in a tourney. But over the 4 years I've been playing I'm certainly well ahead, not sure of the relevance of the question though. WASP who agrees with the fold would almost certainly be a long term winner at higher levels than I play if that's any help :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? If an opponet has a flopped flush he becomes 71% / 29% favourite, but money is still going in That's it in a nutshell. Should've folded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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