Rivrd Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 An interesting came up tonight where it was blind on blind, i got accused of all sorts of things but i dont think i played this hand bad at all. What do you think ? Would you be laying the hand down ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivrd Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Pictures not very clear, but after the flop i put a pot size bet in, with the flopped straight and flush draw he then made it 720 to go before i pushed all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuleBritannia Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Im not laying that down ever....... going bust every time. 1. Would you have folded pre-flop if you didn't have a limper before you? 2. What sort of range did you have villain on? You were obviously pretty confident you were ahead with that flop, and rightly so imo..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? I doubt i'd ever fold this but in a cash game where there are a load of nits i pretty much get it in here thinking 'I has a straight flush draw ALL IN' as they invariably have Ax hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? dunno, you're a 70 / 30 dog if you put him on two hearts, you could already be drawing dead I might have let it go, but no strong feelings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? dunno, you're a 70 / 30 dog if you put him on two hearts, you could already be drawing dead I might have let it go, but no strong feelings don't think anyone's ever getting away from this hand so don't talk bull AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivrd Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Villain Terry, had been raising pretty much with anything during the game so his range yes was pretty wide, the only hand that he could have had is obviously the Ace H rag, or just pure bluff. I'm goig broke with this hand everytime - As it happens Terry went broke in about 8 hands after this, raising and call with K 5s, J4os and other crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? yeah i'n not folding this apart from in a sat maybe,with only the ace to worry about and hu then i'm pushing everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? don't think anyone's ever getting away from this hand so don't talk bull AJ. Whys it bull ? I gave my honest opinion on the hand, he's got about 5% of his chips in the pot (I think, can't quite make out his starting stack) A flopped straight and the draw is nice, but he's suddenly faced a massive over bet of about 2.5 times the pot with three hearts on the board. The pot sized bet of 120 is a probe is see where he is, it gets a firm answer with a massive raise. Unless you think the guy is full of crap, it's quite clear you're facing a flopped flush and are way behind. Don't undestand why this is so complex. If you put him on two hearts then you're behind and clearly don't have the odds to play, I'm not saying it was a dreadful call, but I think I'd lay it down. Also remember Terry is on the BB, he hasn't paid to see the flop widens his range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? look at your hand... you have a flopped straight with an up and down straight flush draw which also happens to be a gut shot royal flush draw... Anyone laying this down because they think villain has flopped a flush will lose money in the long run imo. It's dead easy to say you'll lay a hand down when you know the outcome! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Anyone that would lay that hand down against an unknown opponent should seriously consider giving up poker and put their money in a savings account. With no information you can't seriously put the opponent on 2 hearts or the nut straight. So many times they'll have q10 K10 Kq or Ahx that folding has to be - EV longterm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? I ain't laying that down ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueFinder Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Only a fuccking donkey would lay that down, especially shortstacked. And it wasn't as if you called the allin, you wer the aggressor so if he had the A(h) and just drawing (which was a lot more likely than flopping it, it was you asking him the question which is the way it should be. The fact that you were holding the second nut flush draw makes it virtually a no brainer. What was the buyin? you must have been at a table of timid weak misers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatoman Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Anyone that would lay that hand down against an unknown opponent should seriously consider giving up poker and put their money in a savings account. With no information you can't seriously put the opponent on 2 hearts or the nut straight. So many times they'll have q10 K10 Kq or Ahx that folding has to be - EV longterm. +1. Im not folding this. NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueFinder Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? The odds on flopping a flush are not high. It was very unlikely and being blind on blind he HAS to raise you if he was even holding top pair crap kicker to see where he stands. The only case I can see for a fold here is if you were both 2 of the chipleaders. then it may not be worth getting involved in a big pot out of position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? +1. Im not folding this. NH +2 His range is far wider than what is beating you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? The only person laying this down is someone who imagines the other player always has a better hand than him and only feels comfortable when he has the 'nuts'. :unsure That's far too tight in my opinion!:ok The fact that he's BB makes me far more likely to chuck all my chips in.....I'm not nearly good enough to lay this down!:cry:cry (one day I will be:lol) TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? I don't think that many people could lay that down. I certainly couldn't. As mentioned above his range is pretty big and you are only behind to very few hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Can't see what the post flop betting was, but I'm check-raising all-in here on the flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Just me then :unsure Fair dos, maybe I'm too tight. I still maintain I think I'd walk away from that, not enough chips in the pot to feel committed to the hand. Don't like the board. Your "M" is very high 25+ (is harington still well thought of ?), there is danger on the board and you're facing serious resistance, I think you'd get a better chance to get your money in later when you can be more certain of being ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? AJ you being serious here or just on the wind up? You flop a str8 and the up n down strait/royal flush draw and your willing to fold to a re-raise? How much stronger does your hand need to be on the flop to get your chips in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? AJ you being serious here or just on the wind up? You flop a str8 and the up n down strait/royal flush draw and your willing to fold to a re-raise? How much stronger does your hand need to be on the flop to get your chips in? 100% serious. middle of tourney dangerous board against serious resistance (he's bet 2.5 times the pot). Think you'll have a better chance later. Like I said up front, don't think it was a dreadful push, but 60/40 I think I'd let it go. I'm a very tight player though it has to be said. I see it like this, he's clearly representing the flush, do I have specific reason to disbelieve him ? None that I can see. So I give him a pass this time. If he keeps doing it, different choice of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? I see it like this' date=' he's clearly representing the flush, do I have specific reason to disbelieve him ? [/quote'] Or is he representing a reasonably strong hand without a heart that's scared of a 4 flush on the board? something like 2 pair/trips/str8? A lot of players will play the nut flush draw like that too (especially if someone is playing tight weak as you suggest you would) - something like :Ah: :4c: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Or is he representing a reasonably strong hand without a heart that's scared of a 4 flush on the board? something like 2 pair/trips/str8? A lot of players will play the nut flush draw like that too (especially if someone is playing tight weak as you suggest you would) - something like :Ah: :4c: That's a judgement call isn't it. Not sure tight weak is a fair description, i prefer selective agression :ok If the lay down is so shocking, what's the purpose of the thread ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuleBritannia Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? An interesting came up tonight where it was blind on blind, i got accused of all sorts of things but i dont think i played this hand bad at all. If the lay down is so shocking, what's the purpose of the thread ? Discussing whther or not the fact Jase was still in the hand warranted all sorts of accusations. Which IMO it didn't, as I am never laying that down...... If that is a weakness in my game, or a bad judgment call then so be it... but Im going bust every single time HU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueFinder Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? The only person laying this down is someone who imagines the other player always has a better hand than him and only feels comfortable when he has the 'nuts'. :unsure That's far too tight in my opinion!:ok The fact that he's BB makes me far more likely to chuck all my chips in.....I'm not nearly good enough to lay this down!:cry:cry (one day I will be:lol) TQM If you lay it down you wouldn't be good:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivrd Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? AJ you being serious here or just on the wind up? You flop a str8 and the up n down strait/royal flush draw and your willing to fold to a re-raise? How much stronger does your hand need to be on the flop to get your chips in? When you have a villain at your table AJ who is raising with all sorts of crap, at his best hand i can put him on is :Ah: :5c:, but i am still sticking my money in here every time. But come on how strong do you want your hand to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? Or is he representing a reasonably strong hand without a heart that's scared of a 4 flush on the board? something like 2 pair/trips/str8? A lot of players will play the nut flush draw like that too (especially if someone is playing tight weak as you suggest you would) - something like :Ah: :4c: so, if he's on A4 I think it makes you a 60/40 fav at this point. Clearly ahead and obviously +ev in a cash game, so you call. But in a tourney you're racing. Do you need or want to race, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends on where you are in the game and stack sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? RIVRD isn't calling a 60/40 shot though AJ he's putting the pressure on his opponent to call for their stack, big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Are you Laying this down ? I would be calling an all in anyways.... you're a 60/40 fav at worst(barring he hasn't flopped the flush). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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